A question for Communists

[Elok]

I'll bet that whatever primitive religion he was referring to (I'm not sure it was wicca) is outbreeding the hell out of atheists/agnostics in Europe.

[Sandman]

That hardly matters. More religious kids now mean more non-religious adults later.

[Nostromo]

And both are philosophers who write in the Analytic style. Your point?

Maybe they write in a style that may be vaguely called analytic. But they're certainly not analytic philosophers, not stricto sensu. Not even analytic philosophers manqués, as some suggest.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Sandman
That hardly matters. More religious kids now mean more non-religious adults later.

Heh. Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better, but the single strongest factor in what we believe later in life is what we learn from our parents. Those few who rebel against the values they were raised by are notable precisely because of their rarity.

[Sandman]

Societies would never change if that was true.

[Kidlicious]

Change is mostly caused by economic factors, not rebelious children.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Sandman


I'll bet that atheism/agnosticism are growing faster than wicca etc.

Actually if predications are anywhere near correct then near zero population growth of native Euro weenies in Europe is a near term reality with influxes of Islamic immigration making any growth likely for our elder nation state cousins.

I'm assuming fundy Islamisists are what was being referred to as opposed to wiccans.

[Sandman]

That's the standard (wrong) interpretation that your average American is trained to believe, yes. Muslims are merely the largest minority amongst immigrants to Europe (about 40%, IIRC).

[Elok]

Sure societies will change. SoD was a loony, but he was right about the secular world falling behind in numbers. At least in America they are. They don't have kids, therefore they don't pass on their values. Meanwhile the crazy fundie woman in the kitchen in Texas is spawning like a trout, and tons of Catholic immigrants move in from Mexico nearby. I don't know Europe too well, but I can't imagine why it would be different. What are the rest of those rapid-reproducing immigrants aside from the 40% Muslims, anyway? I would imagine a fair number of devoutly Catholic, condom-hating Poles and Slavs. Which is not to say I approve of irresponsible reproduction, but from an evolutionary perspective it seems to be working.

As for what the new generation will believe, I have hope for them yet (again, at least in America). There's not much danger of them becoming atheists, since really you people do come off as some horribly dreary toads to anyone raised in a non-abusive religious household. Like all revolutionaries, you're good for nothing once your enemy is defeated unless you can find something new to stand for. Go ahead, fire up their youthful idealism with some Camus and Bertrand Russell, why don't you? People don't want to be diehard creationists who can't use contraceptives, drink, or have fun; however, that doesn't mean they want to be the noisy but insignificant whiners who periodically appear in the news to insist that "In God We Trust" on our coins will lead to a new Dark Age.

There's plenty of room in the middle, and I suspect that's where they'll settle. Between stunted atheist and stunted fundie, that's the most appealling option. Yeah, I know I'm trolling, but you guys started it with your inevitable march of history towards enlightenment BS.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Elok
Sure societies will change. SoD was a loony, but he was right about the secular world falling behind in numbers. At least in America they are. They don't have kids, therefore they don't pass on their values. Meanwhile the crazy fundie woman in the kitchen in Texas is spawning like a trout, and tons of Catholic immigrants move in from Mexico nearby. I don't know Europe too well, but I can't imagine why it would be different. What are the rest of those rapid-reproducing immigrants aside from the 40% Muslims, anyway? I would imagine a fair number of devoutly Catholic, condom-hating Poles and Slavs. Which is not to say I approve of irresponsible reproduction, but from an evolutionary perspective it seems to be working.

From my little experience, 2nd-generation Arabs and Turks don't breed any more significantly than the locals.

As to the Poles, they'll go the road of the Portuguese, and their children won't care about religion any more than the 2nd gen Portuguese do

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Odin
I agree, Marx's Idea that religion would dissapear is naive. Most people have a psycological need for spirituality, IMO.

I don't think he was being naïve. AFAIK, people with higher education and/or are more knowledgable tend to be less religious.

Originally posted by Odin
Religion is not inheirently good nor bad, it can be used to cause people to do the most selfless acts as well as the most bloody.

It depends on the religion.

[DaShi]

How did this turn into a religion thread?