Bush was warned there were no WMD, says former CIA man

[dannubis]

Originally posted by Arrian


Is that the number now? Of course, had we not invaded and instead played around with the sanctions, people would be claiming hundreds of thousands dead because of teh evil sanctions and blame us for that too. Furthermore, while one can certainly argue that the deaths are at least partly our fault, there are two other issues: 1) Many (most?) of the deaths are caused by other Iraqis or jihadis from the surrounding countries; 2) Saddam was brutal, and there are various estimates of how many people he killed per annum.

Please do not construe the above as a defense of the war, which is it not.

-Arrian

I wasn't attacking you personally.

I just wondered what the US citizens thought of the fact that one way or another, their governement is accountable for the death of these people.

All my colleagues from the US these days have this DUH feeling. But there it stops. "Yes we know Bush lied about the war. What can we do about it?"

So an honest question: Are you guys still caring ?
Some of the pro-war people say they want out based on the thought that the Iraqis had their chance.
The people that didn't want the war want out because they think that you guys shouldn't even be there.

[Arrian]

I still think pulling out would be a mistake. "You break it, you buy it" seems to apply.

-Arrian

[germanos]

Originally posted by Arrian
I still think pulling out would be a mistake. "You break it, you buy it" seems to apply.

-Arrian

Sure, that even applies to an elephant in a china shop.

If I were the elephant I would still leave the shop ASAP.
$$ are easy, try making some china.

[Arrian]

If I were the elephant I would still leave the shop ASAP.

Without paying?

-Arrian

[germanos]

There's little point in keeping paying when everytime you draw your wallet you break something else

There's also little point in staying in the shop and repeating the mantra: "I'll pay for all that I break". Especially when you have no idea on how to make the stuff you break or where to buy it.

How about me breaking your backbone and saying: "don't worry, I'll pay for it"?

[RGBVideo]

Slowwhand, from your very own 1441:

The security council[...]


1. Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its obligations under relevant resolutions, including resolution 687 (1991), in particular through Iraq’s failure to cooperate with United Nations inspectors and the IAEA, and to complete the actions required under paragraphs 8 to 13 of resolution 687 (1991);

2. Decides, while acknowledging paragraph 1 above, to afford Iraq, by this resolution, a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations under relevant resolutions of the Council; and accordingly decides to set up an enhanced inspection regime with the aim of bringing to full and verified completion the disarmament process established by resolution 687 (1991) and subsequent resolutions of the Council;

The underlined part refers to the duty of Iraqi goverment to let UN weapons inspectors, who were led by Hans Blix, walk freely within the borders of Iraq to ensure that Iraq wouldn't develop weapons of mass destruction. Guess what? Hussein complied with the resolution. He let the inspectors in. The claims that they weren't allowed to search for WMD freely are probably well-known for you. They are also false. Hans Blix himself said, shortly before Bush said that diplomacy had failed and weapons inspectors were forced to leave the country, that he didn't found any proof of WMD and was very angry by the way US goverment ignored his reports of no weapons within the country.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by germanos
There's little point in keeping paying when everytime you draw your wallet you break something else

There's also little point in staying in the shop and repeating the mantra: "I'll pay for all that I break". Especially when you have no idea on how to make the stuff you break or where to buy it.

How about me breaking your backbone and saying: "don't worry, I'll pay for it"?

I rather think this analogy has fallen apart.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Seriously, Sloww, VJ is correct.

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by germanos
There's little point in keeping paying when everytime you draw your wallet you break something else

The Iraqis just had an election. They are forming a govt that will in all likelihood include all the major parties that won seats in that election. We can ask them what they would actually like, and whether THEY think our withdrawl would make them more secure.

If they want us to stay, then IF we are to leave, we have to admit its cause weve decided its not worth it for us. It sure wouldnt be on account of the Iraqis, or our bad feelings for committing "aggression" against them.