Down with the evil Gas lords. (yes, i am brave enough to post another from myspace)

[KrazyHorse]

Snoopy, you've been missing what Kaak's been saying.

According to him, extraction costs are less than 10$ a barrel. Total cost to pring a gallon of gas to market is 42 cents. Exxon is keeping the price of oil high by pushing around producers with 5 times its capacity.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

remember, taxes are on average 40 something % more

Taxes on gas are mostly excise taxes which are based on the sale in gallons, not dollars, so as prices increase the relative share of the taxes decreases.

Hmm, good point. Forgot about that (not having a car and all... )

I also forgot to include the profits for oil companies from the actual oil they drilled themselves (as opposed to refined from other companies' oil, such as saudi arabia etc.) ... I have no basis for understanding those profits myself.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Kaak
I like how you conveniently left out the preceeding sentence.

What the **** are you talking about?

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Snoopy, you've been missing what Kaak's been saying.

According to him, extraction costs are less than 10$ a barrel. Total cost to pring a gallon of gas to market is 42 cents. Exxon is keeping the price of oil high by pushing around producers with 5 times its capacity.

Yeah, I went off and researched before you guys got on your current argument ... but I press on anyway

Anyway, why are we blaming exxon? Anyone with a brain cell knows that Saudi Arabia and OPEC (seperately and together) pretty much determine the price of oil on the market (per barrel). I seriously hope we're not arguing over that ... Exxon etc. might be able to affect the price of a gallon of gas once you get past the crude price, but unless Exxon is run by a bunch of chimpanzees (hmm, make that Rhesus monkeys perhaps) they're not going to sell crude cheaper than Saudi Arabia ...

And technically aren't these prices determined on the futures market, anyway? IE, determined directly by what people are willing to pay for expected future delivery of oil? Of course affected by production and etc. (thus ultimately OPEC/Saudi primarily), but directly set on the NYSE and FTSE (among others)??

[KrazyHorse]

Kaak, honestly, you should just give up and go lick your wounds in private. You're a buffoon.

[snoopy369]

I think you two (particularly Kaak) need to go over here ...

[Kaak]

KH-- FROM YOUR WEBSITE.

ExxonMobil was producing 894 MILLION Barrels a year of oil in 1998. Certainly that hasn't gone down over the last 8 years (which by the way, kind of makes the list of top companies a little dated considering).

Exxon produced about 213000 barrels a day in '04 DOMESTICALLY. that's a little less than 78 MILLION a year. So you're telling me, that if, beyond all stretches of the imagination, their oil production has stayed constant since '98 and not gone up (even though there has been ahuge oil boom), they are producing over 800 MILLION barrels a year in non OPEC countries?



YOU ARE WRONG

[snoopy369]

I'm going to sleep ... you guys are nuts ...

Oh, and I suggest a ban on any further myspace posts

(Isn't that just a site for child molesters anyway ) ... runs out the door

[Kaak]

And technically aren't these prices determined on the futures market, anyway?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

Yes. "Such and such happened, so the price of Oil *MAY* go up, so Futures go up, and in turn current prices go up. Stock markets and traders do not affect how much it costs to take oil out of the ground, refine it, and sell it. They only affect how much is made off of it.

From start to finish, a gallon of gas costs Exxon 42 cents to get to the gas station.

[KrazyHorse]

Exxon produced about 213000 barrels a day in '04 DOMESTICALLY. that's a little less than 78 MILLION a year. So you're telling me, that if, beyond all stretches of the imagination, their oil production has stayed constant since '98 and not gone up (even though there has been ahuge oil boom), they are producing over 800 MILLION barrels a year in non OPEC countries?

One argument at a time, Kaak. Do you admit that ExxonMobil is not, and has not been for some time, the world's largest petroleum producing company?

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Kaak


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

Yes. "Such and such happened, so the price of Oil *MAY* go up, so Futures go up, and in turn current prices go up. Stock markets and traders do not affect how much it costs to take oil out of the ground, refine it, and sell it. They only affect how much is made off of it.

From start to finish, a gallon of gas costs Exxon 42 cents to get to the gas station.

Sorry, I'll stick with my US Government figures rather than your dad's ... Perhaps Exxon may make profit in more than one stage of the game, but you're being unreasonable if you expect them not to charge the market rate for crude. They don't determine that, and make only a small dent in the overall supply (and more than likely are producing every drop of oil that they can, as they're not OPEC themselves).

[Kaak]

I admit that in '98 they were not. Now, I don't know, Saudi may very well be. And that affects the argument how?

Exxon still pulls the oil out of the ground (yes, even in opec nations), they still transport it, they still refine it, and they still sell it. There isn't exactly a middle man. I would also like to point out something that i missed earlier. OPEC sets the oil production, they DO NOT set the price. Infact, they try produce enough to stabalize it. What has been happening lately, can be said definatively not to be stable. As was pointed out, the market sets the price.

From the wikipedia on opec:

The principal aim of the Organization, according to its Statute, is "the coordination and unification of the petroleum policies of [its] member countries and the determination of the best means for safeguarding their interests, individually and collectively; [devising] ways and means of ensuring the stabilization of prices in international oil markets with a view to eliminating harmful and unnecessary fluctuations.

[Kaak]

Snoopy, I'm not disagreeing with you. I absolutely think that they will charge market rate for oil (unless no one is buying from them. at which point, theoretically, they would lower prices). And since it only costs them 42 cents a gallon to bring to market they are rolling in the money.

It's easy to say that Transportation costs X and Refining costs X, etc, when you are paying yourself to do the work. And they do drill for oil in OPEC Nations. Like i said, opec sets production limits

[KrazyHorse]

http://www2.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/HJL_Aug13.pdf

Sorry, only 89% of ExxonMobil's production comes from non-OPEC sources



edit:**** the otbot

[Kaak]

Sweet, my dad will be happy to know that he was infact standing on an exxon rig, and not delusional.