Down with the evil Gas lords. (yes, i am brave enough to post another from myspace)

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Kaak can't help you on this one. Although I do take issue with using energy as a proxy means to quantify worth of crude. Around 10% of all crude goes to noncombustion activities and the splits are much dependant on grade and refinery capability. To merely describe crude in terms of energy, cuts out a large portion of oil companies profits in the profitable feedstocks, lubricants, wax and asphalt markets.

[Kaak]

Ogie, I almost brought that up earlier. To say that 1 barrel of crude = x ammounts of gas, and that determines the price of gasoline is ignoring a lot.

Secondly, Arrian, what am I wrong about??? I never claimed a boycott would work. In fact, More than once, I stated that I didn't know if it would, and the only reason I posted this is because I would be interested to see what would happen if it actually took place. Read the thread.

[Arrian]

Kaak,

I read it, start to finish.

You "don't know if it would work" and yet you spent 3 pages defending the idea when others criticised it? Uh-huh. The defenses you raised were shot down, repeatedly.

That's what you're wrong about.

-Arrian

[Kaak]

lol...ummm...I guess reading and understanding are two different things. and how were my points shot down?

the point i defended, which has yet to be even remotely refuted, is that Oil companies control oil production from start to finish, therefore, oil prices do nothing but pad the pockets of said oil companies and those they do business with. Production costs are pretty vary little.

I'm sorry that you were distracted by the tangents people brought up in vain efforts to draw attention away from the fact that they couldn't disprove that.

As for whether or not a boycott would work. No clue. And I don't care if it did one way or another. Curiosity is the only motivation here.

[Adam Smith]

Politicians get a bug up their ass about this every single year it seems, and demand comprehensive studies that will prove their point. But it does not usually turn out how they expect.

Here are the last few renditions...

2004 study of the effect oil industry mergers on consumer prices

The report develops five major themes: 1) Mergers of private oil companies have not significantly affected worldwide concentration in crude oil – this fact is important, because crude oil prices are the chief determinant of gasoline prices; 2) Despite some increases over time, concentration for most levels of the petroleum industry has remained low to moderate; 3) Thorough FTC merger investigations and enforcement have helped prevent further increases in petroleum industry concentration and avoid potentially anticompetitive problems and higher prices for consumers; 4) Economies of scale have become increasingly significant in shaping the petroleum industry; and 5) Industry developments have lessened the incentive to be vertically integrated throughout all or most levels of production, distribution, and marketing. Several significant refiners have no crude oil production, and integrated petroleum companies today tend to depend less on their own crude oil production.

2005 study of the cause of gasoline price increases

One of the Report’s conclusions is that over the past 20 years, changes in the price of crude oil have led to 85 percent of the changes in the retail price of gasoline in the U.S., while other important factors have included increasing demand, supply restrictions, and federal, state, and local regulations such as “clean fuel” requirements and taxes. (my emphasis)

And another ongoing study of gasoline prices in 2006.

Complete text of all studies is available at

http://www.ftc.gov/reports/index.htm

KH: going to have to make you an honorary economist

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Kaak can't help you on this one. Although I do take issue with using energy as a proxy means to quantify worth of crude. Around 10% of all crude goes to noncombustion activities and the splits are much dependant on grade and refinery capability. To merely describe crude in terms of energy, cuts out a large portion of oil companies profits in the profitable feedstocks, lubricants, wax and asphalt markets.

It's not perfect, but it's better than either:

a) completely discounting the ~50% of the barrel that doesn't go to gasoline production

or

b) simplistically equating 1 gallon gas = 1 gallon oil

It's not supposed to be 100% accurate. Just a first approximation. In fact, relative prices of different fractions fluctuates as demand for these fractions changes and as the mix of qualities of overall world production changes. Which does not lend itself to an obviously tractable solution.

edit: said oil, meant gasoline

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

True dat. But this is more the reason why the oil companies use grades of light, heavy, sweet and sour in order to esatblish market price.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Kaak, you're possibly the densest person I've ever seen.

No. Sadly, no.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I really wonder where the **** Kaak thinks Exxon is spending all its money. It made 9.5% profit or so in 2005. How the **** did it manage that when it's selling gas at a 500% markup at the pump?

Clearly they're giving the fatcat CEO's all the rest...

EDIT: how do I get rid of the bold and caps?

EDIT2: OTBOT

[Kassiopeia]

Edit your post and add "OTBOT" there somewhere. That should work.

[Arrian]

That's the workaround.

-Arrian

[Kaak]

Not just the CEOs! A good portion of the people in the oil industry make ridiculous salaries my father included...

That's how they make the profits appear artificially thin...When they are writing the checks to themselves or their employees, it's easy to say Production costs X, Shipping costs X. I've said that before in this thread. TONS of fluff and waste in the oil industry.

[Arrian]

Now you're just talking like a commie.



-Arrian

[KrazyHorse]

That's how they make the profits appear artificially thin...When they are writing the checks to themselves or their employees, it's easy to say Production costs X, Shipping costs X. I've said that before in this thread. TONS of fluff and waste in the oil industry.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Edit your post and add "OTBOT" there somewhere. That should work.

Thank you.