Italian elections picture thread

[Spiffor]

Fausto Bertinotti

[Pekka]

Spiff, did you read his 'famous for saying?'. As usual, commies show their true skin at some point. I will never give thumbs up for such an ass.

[Pekka]

Commies in general are pretty messed up in the head. Even the Chinese commies aren't so ideology driven anymore. Because, well, they have learned. They're just trying to keep the power and the status of the party state with other means now than ideology, because it doesn't work anymore.

So, rich European commies. Oh mamma mia... :shakeshead:..

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Pekka
Spiff, did you read his 'famous for saying?'.

Yes

[Pekka]

that makes you evil too, then.

[Provost Harrison]

[Pekka]

Also I don't understand how he sees communism as bringing liberty. Peace I understand in utopist way, but liberty? Liberty from... the market? Libery how? Liberty of not having to think yourself, because everything is set for you?

[Provost Harrison]

I recommend you go back and do some research Pekka...even if you don't agree, you can at least learn to understand...

[Pekka]

well you tell me. How does communism give you liberty of any kind, and what kind of liberty are we talking about here?

[Datajack Franit]

Pekka is right on this, the funny thing is that no matter how many persons died in a gulag or starved to death in China, or became schnitzel in other communist countries worldwide, it is still acceptable to be a communist while it is not acceptable to be a fascist or a neo-nazi. Both should be illegal parties.

The main reason why I am not convinced in voting for the centre-left coalition is that they have TWO communist parties, each one getting 4% of the voters. Summing up their symphatizers, I really don't want a 10% communist minority ruling my country (they're getting the economics and the social welfare ministries in case of victory). What the hell, you are a centre-right coalition, give those to the radicals that are promoting gay-rights and quick divorces.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
The main reason why I am not convinced in voting for the centre-left coalition is that they have TWO communist parties, each one getting 4% of the voters. Summing up their symphatizers, I really don't want a 10% communist minority ruling my country (they're getting the economics and the social welfare ministries in case of victory).

You have nothing to fear of the sort. At least if France is any indication.

The French commies have taken part to the centre-left coalition that ruled between 1997 and 2002. The elites of the commie party were so happy to have a seat that they did very little to further the commie agenda, and they cooperated with Jospin's thirdwayish policies. The Commie party was utterly wrecked in the 2002 elections as a result, and had a near-death experience.

I don't think the Italian commies have such a bitter experience yet, and thus I think they'll follow the same pattern. Commies in centre-left coalitions usually lose touch with their ideas for the sake of "realism" and of following the coalition's biggest party.

[Pekka]

"The elites of the commie party were so happy to have a seat that they did very little to further the commie agenda, and they cooperated with Jospin's thirdwayish policies."

Exactly. Everyone, especially commies are human too. What this means is, that once truly communist agenda has been reached, it is ruled by elite, not by the people. It is extremely naive to not see this as the most likely outcome at some point.

So is it not ruled by elite now you might ask.. sure.. some kind of elitist atmosphere there is even in democracies. Networking is the alpha and omega of things, who you know and what you do for them. But at least, besides theory but also in practice, you can rise to something, you can do something and you can damn well at least have the power to pay and corrupt that elite to get things going your way, the way of the people.

The biggest failure of it is that it doesn't work. It's a utopia. The danger is, if we don't reach even close to that utopia, it's not working for us at all. Other systems may also not work, but they don't need to reach the utopia to serve its purpose, and while it serves the purpose only partially, it guarantees us at least a fighting chance.

Being a real communist in today's Europe is almost political blasphemy if you're old enough. If you're young, you're being active, exploring, learning, expanding. That's good. If you're old and still a communist, your head is full of ****. They can say all the want about liberty, about 'it's good for you'. How about I decide what's good for me and you decide what's good for you? Forcing collectivism is oppressive at its nature, even if it's meant to do good. You choose to be collective, I don't. The number of options count.

It is irresponsible to be a communist these days. Markets rule, it's a fact even if you hide yourselves behind what ever ideologies. It's there whether we like it or not, and going truly commie is isolating yourself. You think France has so much resources you can afford it? No you can't. You will destroy yourselves if you would follow that ideology. And what good is the ideology when it doesn't provide any results to the people? I'm always open for new ideas, new ways to at least try things, the current things aren't perfect. Lots of peopel are unhappy, and don't have those chances some other people have. It's unfair and in some aspects it's unequal. But the communist card has been checked already few times. How many implosions you want to explore until you learn it's a ****ing bad idea?

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit


The main reason why I am not convinced in voting for the centre-left coalition is that they have TWO communist parties, each one getting 4% of the voters. Summing up their symphatizers, I really don't want a 10% communist minority ruling my country (they're getting the economics and the social welfare ministries in case of victory). What the hell, you are a centre-right coalition, give those to the radicals that are promoting gay-rights and quick divorces.

Did you already vote? If not, one more thing to consider: The "reform" of the voting system almost guarantees you that whoever you'll vote for, it won't last all too long. If the left wins, you might even get an earlier chance to opt again, maybe with other protagonists. And should in fact the communists be so adaptable that a coalition really lasts a bit longer, nothing to fear.
On the other hand, there's Berlusconi, babbling of conspiracy, leading the country with the only purpose to protect himself from justice etc. - and it's not that his coalition partners are better...

[Datajack Franit]

Voted. It was a hard time, couldn't sleep at all yesterday nite.

I realized that Italy has some huge economical problems, even worse than Germany. China is eating us alive. Berlusconi is without a single doubt a better economist than Prodi. Period. Prodi said that Italy has got to be the welcoming checkpoint for chinese goods entering Europe. Tell me what happened to England's textile and manufacturing industry when Japan and Korea walked in, Mr. Prodi.

Crime is also an issue, and receiving a sh!tload of illegal immigrants won't do anything good.

I honestly wanted to vote for the Radicals (gay unions legalized, stem cell research and laicism) but they belong to the wrong coalition. The centre-left made many promises during their last government and didn't do anything. So I voted for Berlusconi's party.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
Berlusconi is without a single doubt a better economist than Prodi.