Chavez steals millions from foreign companies.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


throughout east asia foreign investors invested in industrial production,not just resource exports. Ditto Mexico. And theyve done the same thing in Ireland and eastern Europe, so it really doesnt have anything to do "with little brown people"

The working class is always brown. The "industrial production" was to provide cheap labor for manufactured products for export markets to serve the foreign investors, not for domestic infrastructure or manufacturing base to serve the host country's consumer markets. So we get TVs in Mexico and Barbie dolls and just about everything else in China, all sold at WalMart. Big whoop for the leetle brown people as a whole.

Tell me of a country thats achieved rapid economic development without foreign direct investment?

Venezuela has been around for a while. What has the average Jose gotten out of foreign investment so far?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kidicious
I don't want to bet money. Just for fun. btw, I think the poverty rate is already lower in Venezuela.

You've never been to Latin America, have you?

[Sandman]

"Give me 50% or I will take 100% and there is nothing you can do about it."

Yep, no problem with that. No coercion occuring there. Proporty rights were entirely respected.

Achtung! Godwin!

Property rights can and do get trumped by other principles from time to time - democracy and national sovereignty being the two in play here. I've already accepted that Chavez's policies are bad for foreign investment - I'm just not especially convinced they're going to lead to economc ruin.

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat

The working class is always brown.

So youre admitting you really meant working class, and threw in the racial stuff to get a rise out of people?

The "industrial production" was to provide cheap labor for manufactured products for export markets to serve the foreign investors,

It was to make a profit. Who said they invest out of altruism?

not for domestic infrastructure or manufacturing base to serve the host country's consumer markets.

Cause in general these countries consumer markets are small. But where theyre large, they do invest for local consumer markets - for example western automakers assembling vehicles in China, largely for local markets.

So we get TVs in Mexico and Barbie dolls and just about everything else in China, all sold at WalMart. Big whoop for the leetle brown people as a whole.

Big whoop indeed - rising wages, rising living standards,which go on to create domestic markets.

Venezuela has been around for a while. What has the average Jose gotten out of foreign investment so far?

Oil, which doesnt have huge demand for labor, and tends to create corruption, often concentrates wealth. Latin American countries in general tend to have concentrated wealth patterns. But again, what LDC has achieved rapid economic growth without FDI?

[lord of the mark]

BTW its quite possible to pursue social welfare policies without opposing FDI.

Someone above said Chavez had stopped FTAA. Thats not quite true. Brazil under Lula has stopped FTAA, cause they dont like the terms. Brazil, BTW, is looking at pulling out of gas development in Bolivia. Even the social democrats who are anti-Bush and are stopping FTAA, arent interested in investing without security.

http://ogj.pennnet.com/articles/article_display.cfm?Section=ONART&C=GenIn&ARTICLE_ID=252055&p=7

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Sandman
Achtung! Godwin!

Property rights can and do get trumped by other principles from time to time - democracy and national sovereignty being the two in play here. I've already accepted that Chavez's policies are bad for foreign investment - I'm just not especially convinced they're going to lead to economc ruin.

I cite a recent court case (from just last week) which directly deals with the issue at hand (expropriation of property by the state) and you attempt to wave it way with a general godwin claim?

[Sandman]

I mentioned democracy and national sovereignty as well.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Sandman
I mentioned democracy and national sovereignty as well.

National sovereignty IIUC, protects them from being invaded for uncompensated nationalization (international law having changed from 100 years ago) - Im not sure it protects them from all other sanctions.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Oerdin


You've never been to Latin America, have you?

No, I've been to America though.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Oerdin


As stated earlier Venezuela can do well as long as high oil prices cover for the declining production and the steep decline of the non-oil portion of the economy. If oil prices do come down at any point in the future then Venezuela's government will be royally screwed.

Those days are over.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
BTW its quite possible to pursue social welfare policies without opposing FDI.

Someone above said Chavez had stopped FTAA. Thats not quite true. Brazil under Lula has stopped FTAA, cause they dont like the terms. Brazil, BTW, is looking at pulling out of gas development in Bolivia. Even the social democrats who are anti-Bush and are stopping FTAA, arent interested in investing without security.


http://ogj.pennnet.com/articles/arti..._ID=252055&p=7

I don't think the FTAA has been passed in the US yet either.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Tell me of a country thats achieved rapid economic development without foreign direct investment?

Well rapid economic development kind of encourages investment.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Oerdin


"Give me 50% or I will take 100% and there is nothing you can do about it."

Yep, no problem with that. No coercion occuring there. Proporty rights were entirely respected.

You've clearly shown your bias towards megarich MNEs. The more we get from them the better. If they agree to it then great.

[Kidlicious]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by lord of the mark

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat

The working class is always brown.

So youre admitting you really meant working class, and threw in the racial stuff to get a rise out of people?

I feel brown sometimes.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kidicious

Those days are over.

I recall that people said similiar things about high oil prices in the 1970's however the high prices brought a lot of new production on line which caused prices to fall to record lows in the 1980's. I see no reason why similiar conditions could not happen again. There is a ton of oil left out there to be found (abet mostly in hard to reach places like oceans and other remote areas) and high prices mainly depend on demand in Asia continuing to outpace supply growth.