Bush: Troops to Stay in Iraq for Years

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by DaShi
Why else wouldn't Bush attack NK or Iran?

NK's out because it's got no oil. Iran is out because the US couldn't win a ground war there and there was no excuse for it.

[fed1943]

Let's face it:Nowdays Americans have the power to win the war they want.The only people who can stop Americans conquer or destroy the world are Americans themselves(and they are doing it,God bless them).
The only thing missing is never put oil in first place;if done,I believe America(and the whole world)will get a quick victory greater that the 1991'one.
Best regards,

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Ted Striker


You're making an awful lot of exaggerated generalizations and actual misinformation here, but thanks.

I've never said we should cut and run. EVER

Find me one quote ever where I have EVER said we should leave. You can't, so don't even go down that road. So first of all get your facts straight.


We made the decision as a nation to go into this war and we as a nation must now deal with it. That's the bottom line so DONT GET IT TWISTED.


Secondly, the President and his entire administration deserve total blame for the following two things:

1) Lieing to the American people about the reasons for heading into the war (did you forget that part?)

2) Incomptent mismanagement of the war. This could occupy several pages including human rights abuses, strategic incompetence, and outright deception on the grandest scale imaginable

So don't project your crap on me, unlike the Reactionaries here some of us can actually become enlightenend and adjust our understanding of the situation when new information comes to light.

Or perhaps you would prefer the "stay the course," line of thinking that works so great for some of the idiots around here.

Welcome to the bright side, Ted. I never accused you of wanting to quit, that was more directed at people like Slowwhand. But in the pre-war debate, you were really annoying, posting Britney pictures as reply to anyone questioning if starting a war of aggression really was a good idea.

Don't blame the politicians for fooling you into it, because thier lies were so obviuos so any thinking person could see through them. Didn't you look at the facial expressions and body language of your Secretary of state when he made the infamous presentation to the UN? You could clearly see that he didn't believe a single word he was saying, but he acted like a good House N***** and said what his boss had told him to say. I posted about in in a thread here the day after, but most American posters replied that he was not lying at all. Now we know who was right.


USA!

[OneFootInTheGrave]

awwww... buildup for Iraq war


US spying on allies in UN to make them vote differently
Iraq is getting stuff from Niger
Iraq had 45 minute WMD capability
Iraq weapons inspectors asking for more time
Saddam inviting CIA to inspect
War "dossier" one with no proof just circumstantial evidence

War "dossier" two copied from a student!?! essay!!! cited by Powell in UN as a good reason to go to war ROFL. - that alone should have sealed it for everyone

Noone getting fired or any reprimands for constant intellingence embarrasements. I mean the people would be in jail for dossier #2 under other circumstances, but guy organizing it gets promoted to head of MI5 in UK

Other countries asking for more time, weapons inspectors asking for more time... but nada... Blair lies to the UK like 100% (he is intelligent after all), with Bush you never know perhaps he even believed the crap Rummy, Cheeny and Wolf fed him as he is not a too bright chap.

David Kelly who is one of the chief weapons inspectors leaking "the first dossier is sexed up" suicided himself

U.N. inspection teams capable of continuing the search were ordered out because war was imminent... all in all as I said earlier Karl Rove would get a job with Stalin straight away if he was still alive. (in the UK most of the population opposed the war when it was starting, the popular support was only achieved in US IIRC )

[Drake Tungsten]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I've seen no evidence of this. What limited documentation there is on the contacts between Saddam and bin Laden seem to indicate that they had a relatively cordial relationship.

Talk about a well-timed news story...

"Osama Bin Laden Contact With Iraq"

A newly released pre-war Iraqi document indicates that an official representative of Saddam Hussein's government met with Osama bin Laden in Sudan on February 19, 1995 after approval by Saddam Hussein. Bin Laden asked that Iraq broadcast the lectures of Suleiman al Ouda, a radical Saudi preacher, and suggested "carrying out joint operations against foreign forces" in Saudi Arabia. According to the document, Saddam's presidency was informed of the details of the meeting on March 4, 1995 and Saddam agreed to dedicate a program for them on the radio. The document states that further "development of the relationship and cooperation between the two parties to be left according to what's open (in the future) based on dialogue and agreement on other ways of cooperation." The Sudanese were informed about the agreement to dedicate the program on the radio.

The report then states that "Saudi opposition figure" bin Laden had to leave Sudan in July 1996 after it was accused of harboring terrorists. It says information indicated he was in Afghanistan. "The relationship with him is still through the Sudanese. We're currently working on activating this relationship through a new channel in light of his current location," it states.

(Editor's Note: This document is handwritten and has no official seal. Although contacts between bin Laden and the Iraqis have been reported in the 9/11 Commission report and elsewhere, (e.g. the 9/11 report states "Bin Ladn himself met with a senior Iraqi intelligence officer in Khartoum in late 1994 or early 1995) this document indicates the contacts were approved personally by Saddam Hussein.

It also indicates the discussions were substantive, in particular that bin Laden was proposing an operational relationship, and that the Iraqis were, at a minimum, interested in exploring a potential relationship and prepared to show good faith by broadcasting the speeches of al Ouda, the radical cleric who was also a bin Laden mentor.

The document does not establish that the two parties did in fact enter into an operational relationship. Given that the document claims bin Laden was proposing to the Iraqis that they conduct "joint operations against foreign forces" in Saudi Arabia, it is interesting to note that eight months after the meeting — on November 13, 1995 — terrorists attacked Saudi National Guard Headquarters in Riyadh, killing 5 U.S. military advisors. The militants later confessed on Saudi TV to having been trained by Osama bin Laden.)

http://abcnews.go.com/International/IraqCoverage/story?id=1734490&page=1

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

What is this, like the 4th or 5th ABC release of documents since the cache has been made publicly available with editorial commentary to dismiss the validity of the information?

Must.... keep.... reinforcing.....mantra..... No AQ connection....

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie


Welcome to the bright side, Ted. I never accused you of wanting to quit, that was more directed at people like Slowwhand. But in the pre-war debate, you were really annoying, posting Britney pictures as reply to anyone questioning if starting a war of aggression really was a good idea.

Don't blame the politicians for fooling you into it, because thier lies were so obviuos so any thinking person could see through them. Didn't you look at the facial expressions and body language of your Secretary of state when he made the infamous presentation to the UN? You could clearly see that he didn't believe a single word he was saying, but he acted like a good House N***** and said what his boss had told him to say. I posted about in in a thread here the day after, but most American posters replied that he was not lying at all. Now we know who was right.


USA!

Cut the crap. I already stated repeatedly that we as a nation went into this war, we as a nation are here to deal with it. On the other hand YOU do not live here. YOU have way different access to information than the average American does. There's a reason Powell's con job speech worked at the time. Every mainstream news source at the time was overwhelmingly in support of his speech.

Even Powell himself was half-heartedly into it. It was a great act. But now he calls it the worst moment of his entire career. I think that says something. Or maybe he wasn't a "thinking person."

MY CONCERN is not for the welfare of the USA, it's for the welfare of the innocnent people who are caught up in the middle of this and can't even function in their daily lives without risk of being blown up. Whatever happens to the USA is secondary because we're the ones responsible for the whole mess in the first place. Who cares who "wins" and who "loses" what's most important is the people caught up in the middle who had nothing to do with it. That's what makes me mad the most. The incompetence is firstly to blame for this mess. On top of that we have people circumventing gold standards like the Geneva Conventions which only leads to more suffering.


But really, WHAT is your purpose here now? Do you even give a damn about those people suffering and dying? Or are you just here to say I told you so?


So, great job, you're no better than those flag waving people you supposedly look down on.

PS Great comment with the House ****** that makes you look pretty enlightened.

[Chemical Ollie]

I don't think we have any disagreements on the development after the invasion, Ted, I just wanted to point out that you were one of the loudest chicken-hawks at the time when someone's opinion still had any importance. Now it's too late to be sorry.

And yes, my give a F*** is broken. I never cared much about dead American soldiers, they all volonteered anyway. And I have almost stopped caring about dead Iraqis, there are just too many of them for me to percieve the daily suffering they are going through. I need to think of other things in my daily life, otherwise I could not be happy.

I was strongly pro-American until I realised what an arrogant, imbecill moron you had elected as president. That was in early 2001. Then came 9/11, and it all went steeply further downhill.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Ted Striker

On the other hand YOU do not live here. YOU have way different access to information than the average American does. There's a reason Powell's con job speech worked at the time. Every mainstream news source at the time was overwhelmingly in support of his speech.

Was US media showing a different speech than the rest of the world news was? Some people can lie with a poker face, but Colin Powell's body language and facial expressions were giving him away more than any lying person I have ever seen.

And don't at least 80% of the US citizens have access to Internet, where they can find less biased news at BBC, or look at the other side of the coin at Al-Jazeera? Or participate in the educated debates here at Apolyton.

[germanos]

Re: Bush: Troops to Stay in Iraq for Years

Originally posted by SlowwHand


I don't really have much to say.

The longer they stay, the better.

Can't you send some more?

[Barnabas]

I had forgotten the dixie chicks completely, poor women, they got crucified so unfairly, I wonder if they retired.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Retired?! WTF?

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Bush is leaving a real ****burger for the next administration. Not a bad move politically, at least thats one thing he wont get crucified on.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
Bush is leaving a real ****burger for the next administration. Not a bad move politically, at least thats one thing he wont get crucified on.

Every admin leaves a real ****burger for the next.

Kyoto anyone?

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
I don't think we have any disagreements on the development after the invasion, Ted, I just wanted to point out that you were one of the loudest chicken-hawks at the time when someone's opinion still had any importance. Now it's too late to be sorry.

And yes, my give a F*** is broken. I never cared much about dead American soldiers, they all volonteered anyway. And I have almost stopped caring about dead Iraqis, there are just too many of them for me to percieve the daily suffering they are going through. I need to think of other things in my daily life, otherwise I could not be happy.

I was strongly pro-American until I realised what an arrogant, imbecill moron you had elected as president. That was in early 2001. Then came 9/11, and it all went steeply further downhill.

Considering the way you are acting now, I can see why I would have told you to shut the **** up back then. And I'd tell you to shut the **** up now but it's not really worth my time.

Most likely me telling you to shut the **** up was in response to your cheering on for dead US soldiers. I was going to mention this but thanks, you have already done that for me. And it's not just the indifference you are pretending to show now, it was outright cheerleading. (But that's bad right?)

The thing you don't understand about Americans, is that once the decision to go to war is made, (right or wrong) almost all of us get behind the war effort so that the outcome is as best a possible. You will see this time and time again but since you hate everything American well I don't expect you to understand. I felt this way then and I feel this way now. Give the guys on the ground the best chance to win as possible. I often send stuff over to Iraq even if it might not be much.

I could also mention the economic draft and the marketing pressure the recruiters put on young kids, but I guess you've never heard of that either. I guess you were a thinking man. Oh well though sucks for those kids they volunteered they should either die or move to a country like Sweden where nothing bad ever happens (unless you are brown and well that's a different story).

This isn't so much about what is right and what is wrong as it is about you trying to stick it to the USA. And it's not just Bush you hate, but it's Americans in general, and that's the bottom line. You have called Americans stupid and ignorant. That's a fact. You probably cheered on 9/11 too.

Face it, you're anti-American, you cheer at the deaths of American soldiers and you could give rat's ass what happens to innocent Iraqis, all you care about is that you get some points Chirac style to make the other team look bad.

I'd say that makes you the very thing you are criticizing.


If I told you to shut the **** up then I'm proud of it now.