French labour laws trigger immense protests

[Spiffor]

Thanks

[ajbera]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris

And some morons think the world owes them to respect the fence they built around a property that produces 1000 times what they need.

Wasn't it one of your people who gave us a huge chunk of our property? Isn't 200+ years a little late for seller's remorse?

And yes, I absolutely do think the world should respect the fence around my property. If they don't, that's what weapons are for.

And your comment does nothing to refute my assertion. The world owes you NOTHING for drawing breath. Never has, and never will.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I took a year "off", in order to discover the world of manual labour, because France is such a caste society that I barely knew any worker before doing that (and for a commie, it is quite teh suck )

That is, without a doubt, one of the most patronizing things I've read here on these boards.

Bet you those schlub workers were real proud that Spiffy could go "slumming" with them. Imagine the sense of pride they felt knowing that you were willing, even eager, to lower yourself to their level.

You are my hero. Really. I mean, you worked, manual labor, for three whole months.

[Arrian]

So wait, it's better to run for office w/o every experiencing manual labor?

This is someone seeking to be a voice for the common worker (he's a commie, ffs!). How much scorn do you heap on privileged Liberals who seek to help the poor, but have never been poor? Probably by ridiculing them for thinking they know what the poor need, without ever having been poor themselves.



-Arrian

[JohnT]

What he said was patronizing.

The common worker doesn't need people like Spiffor to condescend to them, to act as if doing "manual labor" was some great sacrifice on his part, an effort to "reach out" to those less worthy. I'm sure given the choice between him and developing their own voices, they'd just as soon speak for themselves.

[Arrian]

Erm, I don't recall him saying it was some "great sacrifice."

It was *I* who asked what a college-educated person was doing manual labor for (the implication being that it was beneath his skill set - note, not beneath his worth as a person or something, beneath his qualifications... or perhaps simply outside them... I would suck at manual labor).

I really don't see how seeking first-hand experience with a manual labor job is a bad thing for a guy who wants to change the economic system. Does. Not. Compute.

-Arrian

[JohnT]

And I really don't see how my complaining about Spiffor's overarching "See how big I am, I lowered myself to their level" tone has to do with what he wants to do in the future.

[Arrian]

Where, exactly, was that tone you speak of? I asked him why he was working manual labor. He answered. I don't see any "see how big I am, I lowered myself to their level" in his response. Not at all.

-Arrian

[JohnT]

I took a year "off", in order to discover the world of manual labour, because France is such a caste society that I barely knew any worker before doing that (and for a commie, it is quite teh suck

He doesn't know how they live.
He doesn't know how they work.
He thinks it sucks... not for them, of course, but for "Commies".
And by his own admission, he doesn't even know any "workers".

Yet he wants to cast himself as their voice? I mean, apparently this was a totally new world to Spiffor, yet he claims he wants to be the voice of (or for) the working man?

[Dauphin]

He doesn't know how they live.
He doesn't know how they work.
He doesn't even know any "workers".

Yet he wants to cast himself as their voice?

Yeah, that's a politician.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by JohnT

I took a year "off", in order to discover the world of manual labour, because France is such a caste society that I barely knew any worker before doing that (and for a commie, it is quite teh suck

He doesn't know how they live.
He doesn't know how they work.
He thinks it sucks... not for them, of course, but for "Commies".
And by his own admission, he doesn't even know any "workers".

Yet he wants to cast himself as their voice? I mean, apparently this was a totally new world to Spiffor, yet he claims he wants to be the voice of (or for) the working man?

He doesn't know how they live. No, he doesn't, and he's aware of that.

He doesn't know how they work. He's experiencing that now.

He thinks it sucks for a commie to not know these things. I'm not really sure why you think that's bad. He's saying that commies (who purport to be on the side of the "proletariat") should know something about what it's like to do manual labor.

He didn't know any "workers" before his 1-year stint in manual labor. Now he does, at least insofar as one knows ones fellow workers.

He aspires to be the voice of the common man, yeah. He recognized a gap in his experience and attempted to fill it. How many politicians that claim to be for the "common man" even bothered to go this far? He's in his early 20s, IIRC, how worldly do you really expect him to be?

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Dauphin

He doesn't know how they live.
He doesn't know how they work.
He doesn't even know any "workers".

Yet he wants to cast himself as their voice?

Yeah, that's a politician.

Yep, that's the norm. How is making an effort to know some of those things bad?

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Incidently...

AP - 1 hour, 32 minutes ago
PARIS - President Jacques Chirac said Friday he would press ahead with a contentious labor law making it easier to fire workers, but he offered some concessions in hopes of calming furious protests that led to nationwide strikes. Chirac said he would reduce a trial period during which employees could be summarily dismissed from two years to one, and he would require employers to offer reasons.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by JohnT

I took a year "off", in order to discover the world of manual labour, because France is such a caste society that I barely knew any worker before doing that (and for a commie, it is quite teh suck

He doesn't know how they live.
He doesn't know how they work.
He thinks it sucks... not for them, of course, but for "Commies".
And by his own admission, he doesn't even know any "workers".

Yet he wants to cast himself as their voice? I mean, apparently this was a totally new world to Spiffor, yet he claims he wants to be the voice of (or for) the working man?

He just explained his position. One of the best ways to increase your political experience is to actually see the worst that society can throw at you and be in that position. And if that isn't bad enough, try and empathise with the knowledge that there is no escape and no future for god knows how many years. I come from a Northern English working class family and thus am all too aware of the situation. And the job I had when I was up there was no better than manual labour, but paid worse.

Perhaps you could do with a similar experience yourself, to know what it feels like to be at the arse end of society with no hope of betterment.

[C0ckney]

I expect the basic respect that is owed to every human being. Among that, I expect to be allowed to voice my disagreement if there is a problem. I expect not to be fired if my boss finds out that I'm a commie (which is fairly obvious with a google search actually).

To me, it's really a matter of freedom and personal dignity. Such things exist when people are treated equally. Such things don't exist when some people can avuse their power however they want.

owed by whom exactly?

at the end of the day spiff you work in a job that pretty much anyone could do and that you won't be doing for long in any case. so why shouldn't your boss be able to fire you for any reason, or no reason at all, it's hardly an 'abuse'.

i've had plenty of rubbish jobs in the past but i can assure that not one of my bosses has ever given a flying fcuk about my politics or anything like that. as long as you turn up on time, do your job reasonably well and don't whinge about everything, they're happy to employ you and keep you on. i can't believe it's any different in france.