French labour laws trigger immense protests

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Dauphin, I think we are making a very similar point, just emphasizing different aspects of it. We both agree that the bottom line is ultimately what the company has to look at, but sometimes aspects other than pure business affect the bottom line and must be taken into account. Right?

Yeah, same argument different angle.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
He just explained his position. One of the best ways to increase your political experience is to actually see the worst that society can throw at you and be in that position.

Well, I wasn't exactly looking for the worst. I wanted to look at the ordinary, simply because it is a full world that I didn't knew (and that I barely know now).
I was driven by the same willingness to see both bad and good sides when I went to Mali. I don't want to have a miserabilist perspective, but an acceptably accurate one (even though all perspectives based on experience are skewed by the insufficiencies of the experience itself and the perceptions of the individual)

Perhaps you could do with a similar experience yourself, to know what it feels like to be at the arse end of society with no hope of betterment.

I personally haven't experienced that, and I won't. So far, I've worked in jobs where working conditions were acceptable (though difficult), and where everybody I talked to had their hopes or achievements.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Dauphin


What would you do if faced with a business decision where the financials were too complex or ambiguous? Often there is no clear decision to be made based on financials alone. How do you measure the value of intangibles like generated goodwill?

that question actually dosn't make sense - either there are a clear economical gain or there aren't. If there isn't, then a move is done due to strategic reasons.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by kato-uke
btw, do these labour-for-rent companies (Manpower) have to pay you while they don't have a job for you - in France? (over here in Germany, they have to pay in full, calculated on a 35-hour work week)

Of course not.

They pay according to the hours that are planned on the contract (except if you missed work, or left work on your own initiative), plus the possible overtime.

This week, I'll totalise 32 hours of effective work. You can be sure Manpower won't pay me any extra dime.

When I was in Germany, and looking for a quick buck, I noticed that Manpower (and other part-time companies) didn't offer such quick fixes. I guess I now understand why

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by ajbera
Question regarding French labor: unemployment rates aside, are there any prohibitions against working 2 or 3 jobs to earn extra money?

No. However, the legal maximum working time per week (as an employee) is 48 hours, all jobs combined. The normal workweek is 35 hours.
If you work for yourself, there is no limit.
Also, I believe that most high-ranking jobs are not paid by the hour, but by the mission, and are thus limit-less when it comes to time (high-ranking execs work like crazy)

Any prohibition against overtime?

I'm not sure about that. Overtime is allowed, and gets paid more, but I think you can't have as much overtime as you wish.

If you just decided to go into business for yourself, is it relatively easy or do you have to jump through hoops?

AFAIU, it has become noticeably easier in recent years. Very small businesses or very small employers now supposedly have only easy administrative tasks (this is at least true for very small-scale employers, like those who employ a maid).

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by ajbera


Wasn't it one of your people who gave us a huge chunk of our property? Isn't 200+ years a little late for seller's remorse?

What are you talking about? What has my people got to do with your property???

And yes, I absolutely do think the world should respect the fence around my property. If they don't, that's what weapons are for.

It's just a fact that no living being would ever starve himself to death if they could get their stuff in communal property. That's what weapons are for - make sure the people work for others instead of themselves.

And your comment does nothing to refute my assertion. The world owes you NOTHING for drawing breath. Never has, and never will.

Then I wonder by what right people owe to respect your property?

[ajbera]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
What are you talking about? What has my people got to do with your property???

Louisiana Purchase.

It's just a fact that no living being would ever starve himself to death if they could get their stuff in communal property.

Tell that to the peasants in Stalin's time. The ones that didn't starve to death, that is.

That's what weapons are for - make sure the people work for others instead of themselves.

Nice.

Then I wonder by what right people owe to respect your property?

The understanding that in a free society people have the right to pursue and own private property. In a free society a decent person will gladly give food to those who need it, but are not forced at gunpoint to do so. If you choose not to feed to hungry, other free citizens are free to point at you and call you a douchebag.

IMO, it's better to be free to make the "wrong" decision than to be forced to make the "right" one.

[Imran Siddiqui]

However, the legal maximum working time per week (as an employee) is 48 hours, all jobs combined.

:eek

Holy **** what a bassackwards rule! Sometimes people need the money!

[Seeker]

LOL this is such a typical apolyton thread...communists and libertarians argueing...

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

However, the legal maximum working time per week (as an employee) is 48 hours, all jobs combined.

:eek

Holy **** what a bassackwards rule! Sometimes people need the money!

That for certain must be a french rule and actually pretty obsolete. Noone needs to work 48+ a week to have a decent life in WE.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

However, the legal maximum working time per week (as an employee) is 48 hours, all jobs combined.

:eek

Holy **** what a bassackwards rule! Sometimes people need the money!

Perhaps they should pay a living wage for a normal weeks work in that case...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah because if you want to do more than simply *gasp* have just enough to live on, you should just know your place? You don't need a new house or new car! You have a 'living wage' at your one job. Why would you want to take on a part time job on the weekends for extra money?

Or if you are supporting multiple people in your household. Who is going to pay for your grandparents? Or, I guess you're content with saying, screw you grandpa, live on what the government gives you and leave me alone?! Or, heaven forbid you want more than the 'standard number' of children.

Because lawyers making over $100,000 a year (though living somewhere like in NYC) aren't making a living wage?

And of course, I guess that's part of the reason France has over 10% unemployment and 25% youth unemployment. Who cares about getting people jobs?! Lets give the lucky bastards who have them more security, so they can lord over the underclass we have purposely created by our idiotic laws!

You wonder why people dislike commies who squash their freedoms

[DanS]

I've got not much against the normal 35 hour work week. Maybe the timing on instituting it isn't so good, however.

The max workweek of 48 hours seems pretty ridiculous. I haven't had a single week this year less than 48 hours.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by BlackCat
That for certain must be a french rule and actually pretty obsolete. Noone needs to work 48+ a week to have a decent life in WE.

The rule is more relevant for the UK and the new member states though. (It's an EU rule)

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
:eek

Holy **** what a bassackwards rule! Sometimes people need the money!

48 hours, at the bare minimal wage, will put you more than 350€. Considering that such a working time (as an hour-based employee) can only be achieved by overtime or temp jobs, you get significant bonuses, and you should be getting more than 450€ for the week.

And when you need the money, there are ways to work more: sometimes, the law is disregarded (a colleague of mine, paid by the hour, worked more than 60 hours during a specific week). And many people, from mid-ranking management on, aren't paid by the hour. For example, most managers in my store have worked from 7:00 to 21:00 during the entire past week (they're quite tired now)