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  • French labour laws trigger immense protests

    From the BBC

    Job protests grip French cities
    Hundreds of thousands of people have marched through French towns and cities in protest at a new law making it easier to hire and fire young workers.

    The marches were mostly peaceful but scattered violence was reported at the end of the march in the capital, Paris, and in some other cities.

    Unions said some 1.5 million took part while police put turnout at 500,000.

    Ministers say the law will reduce high youth unemployment but opponents fear it will entrench job insecurity.

    Paris saw the biggest of Saturday's marches. Organisers said more than 300,000 people took part while the interior ministry put the figure at 80,000.

    As the march ended, some youths overturned a car and set it alight and pelted police with missiles.

    Hundreds were arrested during unrest in the city earlier in the week.

    'Not disposable'

    The Parisian march was in the main orderly and good humoured, Hugh Schofield reports.


    The participants were a mixture of students, workers, pensioners and families.

    "We are not disposable - we deserve better," student Aurelie Silan said.

    "Aren't we the future of France?"

    Civil servant Nicole Beauregard, who marched with her teenaged daughter, said: "Young people are less well-armed than we are to defend themselves.

    "Getting into the workforce is already hard enough for them, and now they are putting up another obstacle."

    In Toulouse, in the south-west, up to 33,000 people took to the streets while between 10,000 and 25,000 people demonstrated in Lyon.

    Dijon, Marseille, Strasbourg and Bordeaux also saw large demonstrations.

    Protesters are bitterly opposed to the new First Employment Contract (CPE), which allows employers to end job contracts for under-26s at any time during a two-year trial period without having to offer an explanation or give prior warning.

    The government says it will encourage employers to hire young people but students fear it will erode job stability in a country where more than 20% of 18 to 25-year-olds are unemployed - more than twice the national average.

    The demonstrations came after a series of mass protests by students in dozens of French universities, which have severely disrupted classes.

    Political headache

    The BBC's Caroline Wyatt in Paris says the street protests are fast turning into the biggest headache French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin has had to face.

    He came to office in the aftermath of the French "no" to the European constitution last May - a rejection that resulted from a similar mixture of mistrust of the French government and a wider sense of disgruntlement in France, our correspondent adds.

    Mr de Villepin, the architect of the CPE law, said he was prepared to hold talks with labour leaders, but said the legislation would stand.

    His government proposed the law as part of a series of measures designed to help youths in the French suburbs who took to the streets last year.

    What the article doesn't mention:
    De Villepin didn't hold any talk when he prepared the law. He even used special procedures (which were designed for wartime) so that the law could pass as quickly as possible, without actual parliamentary scrutiny. His offer of talks comes solely from the very broad resistance he is now encountering.

    Also, the article doesn't mention that the law legalizes work at age 14 (a French could only work from age 16 on in the past). It legalizes night-shifts for age 15+.

    Generally speaking, the aim of the government (and of the business syndicate) is crystal-clear: it is to progressively do away with our legal protections against abusive layoffs, and to progressively turn France into an at-will state.
    For 6 monthes now, there has been an equivalent of that law that applies only to small businesses. A contract specific for the seniors is also on the tracks. Finally, the business-syndicate, Sarkozy and Villepin have asked to extend the principle to the entire workforce (though the latter has become amazingly discreet on the matter lately).

    Personally, I've never been in protests that were so large. And yet, I've had my share of marches. It seems there is an increasing consensus that we don't want to be treated like expendables while at work
    "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
    "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
    "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

  • #2
    The media here tried to pin it on a tantrum by privileged students at the Sorbonne a couple of days ago. I doubt they'll be able to describe it that way anymore.

    French students and workers
    ~ If Tehben spits eggs at you, jump on them and throw them back. ~ Eventis ~ Eventis Dungeons & Dragons 6th Age Campaign: Chapter 1, Chapter 2, Chapter 3, Chapter 4: (Unspeakable) Horror on the Hill ~

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    • #3
      It's utterly idiotic to constrain such laws to the under 26 crowd. It's simply blatent discrimination.

      Though on the other end, I've heard horror stories of the difficulties of firing employees in France (IBM, when Gerstner came in and the company was doing very poorly, had to keep their offices open in France even though they were entirely unproductive, instead cutting productive jobs elsewhere... of course if they couldn't cut anyone because of labor laws and gone under, it would have hurt everyone involved)
      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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      • #4
        20%+ unemployment amoung young people

        it's not surprising the government has decided to act.
        "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

        "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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        • #5
          Old France
          urgh.NSFW

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          • #6
            Originally posted by joncha
            The media here tried to pin it on a tantrum by privileged students at the Sorbonne a couple of days ago. I doubt they'll be able to describe it that way anymore.
            That was a spin the media and the government tried to do here as well.

            The movement uses two strategies: on the one hand, occasional protests that try to be as large as possible. Obviously, it takes some time to prepare, and you can't have one every day. The big protests so far were Feb 7, March 7, and March 18 (the latter is the only one to have occured during the weekend). Each of these protests was larger than the former.
            These protests are organised by the students, but also by the unions and the political parties. You have a very broad coalition of people who go to the streets, with a very broad range in age and in activity.

            On the other hand, you have a continuous pressure put by the students, with strikes massively occuring in French unis (about half of the French unis are under strike IIUC). This part of the strategy is working well, because the CPE makes the headlines every day, and thus remains a salient issue for the public. However, it is true that workers can't simply strike for monthes, whereas students have this possibility. This is why the anti-CPE movement is mostly a student's thing between the large demos.
            Last edited by Spiffor; March 19, 2006, 06:59.
            "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
            "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
            "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
              It's utterly idiotic to constrain such laws to the under 26 crowd. It's simply blatent discrimination.
              Don't you worry. This law is but a step. The aim is that every active person in France can be fired without justification. The government expected it wouldn't encounter too much resistance if it did it in 4 steps: the small businesses (done, with barely any opposition), the young, the old, and then everybody. The business-syndicate and Sarkozy have made it clear that it was their aim. Villepin supports the idea.

              There is a current rethorics about youth unemployment, but it is only aimed at justifying the CPE in the eyes of the population. Fundamentally, the only reason why the CPE targets only the young is because the government believed that such a law would never pass if they suddenly decided to extend it to everybody.

              This comment is also a reply to c0ckney
              Last edited by Spiffor; March 19, 2006, 05:02.
              "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
              "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
              "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

              Comment


              • #8
                "Getting into the workforce is already hard enough for them, and now they are putting up another obstacle."
                That woman is a drooling idiot. Why does she suppose no one hires people in France unless it is completely unavoidable?

                The French will still have high employment costs which will continue to stunt employment but there should be less risk for companies to hire young people so at least hiring young people will have less down side for them.
                Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                • #9
                  I watch the news from France with amazement. I simply can't figure out why you people have to solve everything with protests. Granted, they may be peaceful in intent, but there is always some violence when people protest, and the news here says it sporadically turns into a riot (understandable with so many young people trying to impress the chicks ).

                  Anyway what would it take in France for Sarkozy or Villepin to be fired? Or resign on their own?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Spiffor
                    The government expected it wouldn't encounter too much resistance if it did it in 4 steps: the small businesses (done, with barely any opposition), the young, the old, and then everybody. The business-syndicate and Sarkozy have made it clear that it was their aim. Villepin supports the idea.
                    At least the French government knows exactly what must be done.

                    I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how this will "create another obstical to employment" for young people. The inability to hire or fire protects current employees at the expense of future employees so reducing or eliminating such laws will of course benifet those without jobs who are seeking to enter the labor force. France will still be more expensive then every where else to hire people but at least more of those employees can be let go when they are no longer economically justified. That does indeed remove a lot of risk from the decision to hire people or not.
                    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by VetLegion
                      I watch the news from France with amazement. I simply can't figure out why you people have to solve everything with protests.
                      I'd say it's there political system. It seems to reward the people who make the biggest stink thus we seem to hear about union or pressure group having yet another protest each week.

                      My personal theory is that special interests realize they wouldn't win in an election so they resort to endless protests in an attempt to paralysis a system after they have already lost the democratic process.
                      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by VetLegion
                        I watch the news from France with amazement. I simply can't figure out why you people have to solve everything with protests. Granted, they may be peaceful in intent, but there is always some violence when people protest, and the news here says it sporadically turns into a riot (understandable with so many young people trying to impress the chicks ).
                        It's pretty simple. The government has completely lost its legitimacy and popularity. During the term, there have been 3 elections, and the UMP party got an epic spanking in each one. There has also been the referendum, where the Non scored a sound victory thanks to the anti-liberal vote (according to the polls, roughly 2/3 of the Non voters did so because of economic concerns, not out of nationalism)

                        Liberalism is loathed in France, and our government insists doing liberal reforms, despite repeated electoral warnings.

                        Also, this law hasn't passed through regular parliamentary procedures, but through emergency procedures (intended for wartime), so that there would be no debate at the Parliament. Democratic institutions have been completely ignored.

                        As a result, the only possible way to stop this is to take it to the streets. If we had a system where the rulers respected the people, that would be different

                        Anyway what would it take in France for Sarkozy or Villepin to be fired? Or resign on their own?
                        2007, aka the next presidential and parliamentary elections.

                        In the past, some have speculated that Sarkozy might resign some monthes before the election so that he could prepare his campaign. This seems unlikely now, especially now that he masters the art of using the means of his ministry to further his own ends.
                        "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                        "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                        "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Is there a law (or absence of) in France that means that you can leave your job without giving a reason? I think that should be outlawed - how would you feel as an employer who invests much into your employee in terms of training, salary, mentoring etc, only to have them leave whenever they feel like it. Bring back indentured servitude.
                          One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Oerdin
                            I'd say it's there political system. It seems to reward the people who make the biggest stink thus we seem to hear about union or pressure group having yet another protest each week.
                            1. It's definitely not "each week". There has been about one broad protestation movement per year since the right came back to power in 2002. Broad protests were nearly inexistant during the left's term (1997-2002).

                            2. Our system doesn't reward those who raise a stink on the streets. In the past years, there has been a broad movement against the retirement reform, and yet it passed. There has been a broad movement against education reforms, and yet they passed.
                            The only reason why the protests might be efficient now is that they have made the issue salient for the average voter, and the voter is extremely hostile to the CPE (68% are against, according to polls; a majority was favorable 2 monthes ago). Villepin's popularity is seriously hit with that. The CPE thing has seriously hurt his image of a reasonable right-winger that'll defend French values, as opposed to a rabid Sarkozy.

                            AND, the election is near (April 2007). Normally, the government wouldn't care one notch for being unpopular. However, the match Villepin-Sarkozy is gonna be close, and Villepin can't afford to lose any points. It is Villepin's first mistake, poll-wise, and it is a serious concern for him, and for all the right-winger leaders who favor Villepin over Sarkozy.

                            My personal theory is that special interests realize they wouldn't win in an election so they resort to endless protests in an attempt to paralysis a system after they have already lost the democratic process.
                            I suppose you don't mean the socialist party, who took part to the protest, and who won by a landslide three times since 2002

                            The reasons why the right has got a very clear majority in 2002 is a very specific political climate at the time. The 2002 vote was about petty crime, about preventing Le Pen to win, and about avoiding a Parliament led by another party than the president's.
                            On economic matters, the large majority of the French are opposed to the government's policies. It has been show in three elections, and it has been shown by the strong anti-liberal vote during the EU-constitution referendum.
                            "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                            "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                            "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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                            • #15
                              I have only one question. Should I eat potato chips or popcorn when I watch France burn?

                              CNN or MSNBC?
                              In da butt.
                              "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                              THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                              "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

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