Happy SS rememberance day!

[Tattila the Hun]

http://www.occupationmuseum.lv/eng/services/Briefing_paper_01.html

"Recent Accusations

"Latvians were willing collaborators of the Nazis". This is an old Soviet accusation in the wake of World War II when the Soviet Union reoccupied Latvia. Though there were Latvians who collaborated with the Nazi German rulers, most of the people were placing their hopes on the Western Allies and a fair post-war settlement that would restore Latvia's sovereignty. Historically, Latvians considered the Germans as their enemies, and only the brutal first Soviet occupation changed that view for a while. For good reasons, the Nazis distrusted the Latvians and eventually planned to colonise the country.

"Latvians are honouring the SS". Latvians are honouring soldiers who fought against Soviet Union in World War II. Most of them were illegal recruits under German occupation. They had no choice to serve in the armed forces of their own sovereign state and to fight against both enemies of their sovereignty. Members of the Latvian Legion, though carrying the German-imposed designation "SS", served as combat soldiers and did not engage in crimes against the humanity. There never was and could not be a Latvian branch of Hitler's criminal SS. Crimes against the humanity on the German side, including crimes of the Holocaust, were carried out by Latvian auxiliaries of the Nazi SD (Sicherheitsdienst) and some auxiliary police units. Many have been prosecuted and brought to justice. Many have died. The Latvian government condemns such crimes and will bring charges against surviving perpetrators."

I'd wager, that most of the actual volunteers joined up, not to fight for, or with the Third Reich, but to fight against the Soviet Union. As a finn, I can symphatize with that.

From the perspective of a small nation between Germany and Soviet Union, it would have been a choice between lesser or two evils, or the particular evil that was closer. SU wasn't exactly a benevolent liberator, not even when compared to the Reich.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Ming


Like you have the high moral ground...

Yes, we do. We don't invade countries at will, like you do.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

Your leadership is even worse than ours... and that's saying a lot...

Do you seriously mean anyone could be worse than King George-II?

[Combat Ingrid]

[Serb]

Originally posted by Saras
More BS from our in-house reality-twisting, Stalin-apologising Russian neo-imperialist and historic revisionist Serb? Thought so.

More denying, nazi-praising BS from neo-nazi Baltic imperialist buddy of mine?
:alaverdy:


p.s. Ne zaebala eshe permanentnaya konfrontaciya? Predlagayu pomiritsya.

[alva]

Originally posted by snoopy369


Yes. It's called freedom of assembly. As long as they're not burning people NOW, we believe in their right to say what they want.

That is one area, Europe is seriously lacking.

[Seeker]

Of course the Americans wouldn't know ANYTHING about Nuremburg would they...?

Face it: People have more freedom to say what they want in the USA, no matter how bad, than in Europe!

How many times will europe bury its collective head in the sand and give these people the matrydoms they so crave?

In america these kind of 'movements' are a side-show because the government doesn't give them attention in a misguided attempt to 'crush' them or whatever.

Whenever a european country arrests demonstrators, political agitators, etc whether they be fascist or anti-fascist they clearly demonstrate that they have not learned the lessons of the war.

Oh and I want to blame the krauts or russians for this but I can't think of a good angle so i'll just blame all eurocoms.

[alva]

Originally posted by Serb
it's Ok in US to a bunch of SS motherf*ckers who burn and slaughter people during WW2 to gather somewhere in the middle of Washington D.C. and march through the city?
* snip *

At least you there are still of these around.
It's not because you forbid them their little parade, they will cease to exist.

[Seeker]

"Baltic imperialist"

Lets hear it for Baltic Imperialism!! Long live the Empire of the Baltic Peoples!

(EDIT: ...it's a very small empire...few people have heard of it...but FEAR THEM!!)

[Serb]

Yeah, f*ck it.

[DanS]

With the same success the members of the KKK can run through your capital as long as they don't lynch and burn any Afro-Americans right there right now.

The KKK has protests from time to time. But the organization is rather out of fashion.

[Serb]

Originally posted by DanS


Hate to break this to you, but the KKK has protests from time to time.

1) Why you've deleted the part about KKK protesters?
2) Have they beaten and thrown to jail for their protest?
3) Was KKK found an inhuman organization by an international court?
4) Have any SS nazi veternas ever had a parade at Washington D.C. approved by local authorities?
5) If so, then surprise-surprise, you are living in the nazi state!

[DanS]

1. Because I wanted to be as accurate as possible.
2. No, they haven't been beaten and thrown in jail.
3. I don't know. It's not like we need an international court to tell us they aren't Boy Scouts.
4. Not that I know of. Why would SS Nazi veterans have a parade in DC? A small group of Neo-Nazis has been going around the country protesting, so I guess DC will be protested one of these days.
5. OK Serb. You're right. By your vast argumenative powers, it has become clear that I live in a Nazi state.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun

http://www.occupationmuseum.lv/eng/services/Briefing_paper_01.html

"Recent Accusations

"Latvians were willing collaborators of the Nazis". This is an old Soviet accusation in the wake of World War II when the Soviet Union reoccupied Latvia. Though there were Latvians who collaborated with the Nazi German rulers, most of the people were placing their hopes on the Western Allies and a fair post-war settlement that would restore Latvia's sovereignty. Historically, Latvians considered the Germans as their enemies, and only the brutal first Soviet occupation changed that view for a while. For good reasons, the Nazis distrusted the Latvians and eventually planned to colonise the country.


Among the three Baltic States of Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia, the latter is perhaps the worst offender

As the people in the Baltic States celebrate the fifteenth anniversary of their independence from the Soviet Union, it is important to see some home truths among the wave of nationalism which is always accompanied by anti-Russian propaganda.

"Latvians are honouring the SS". Latvians are honouring soldiers who fought against Soviet Union in World War II. Most of them were illegal recruits under German occupation. They had no choice to serve in the armed forces of their own sovereign state and to fight against both enemies of their sovereignty. Members of the Latvian Legion, though carrying the German-imposed designation "SS", served as combat soldiers and did not engage in crimes against the humanity. There never was and could not be a Latvian branch of Hitler's criminal SS. Crimes against the humanity on the German side, including crimes of the Holocaust, were carried out by Latvian auxiliaries of the Nazi SD (Sicherheitsdienst) and some auxiliary police units. Many have been prosecuted and brought to justice. Many have died. The Latvian government condemns such crimes and will bring charges against surviving perpetrators."

I'd wager, that most of the actual volunteers joined up, not to fight for, or with the Third Reich, but to fight against the Soviet Union. As a finn, I can symphatize with that.

From the perspective of a small nation between Germany and Soviet Union, it would have been a choice between lesser or two evils, or the particular evil that was closer. SU wasn't exactly a benevolent liberator, not even when compared to the Reich.

You must be sh!tting me, right?
"Among the three Baltic States of Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia, the latter is perhaps the worst offender

As the people in the Baltic States celebrate the fifteenth anniversary of their independence from the Soviet Union, it is important to see some home truths among the wave of nationalism which is always accompanied by anti-Russian propaganda.
Among the three Baltic States of Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia, the latter is perhaps the worst offender as regards a policy of revisionism, painting a rosy picture of its history while spewing out blind hatred of Moscow and all things Russian. Riga, however, would do well to adopt a less abrasive stance.

Latvia's History Commission Report Noziegumi pret Cilveci (Crimes against Humanity) would have us believe that the Latvian people's spirit was so broken by the Soviet invasion of 1940 that nobody had the energy or the will to stop the Germans perpetrating the worst crimes during the four years of their occupation.

Indeed, this is the idea the three Baltic States would have their populations, and the rest of the world, believe. Let us however delve into the history of those four years between 1941 and 1945, when these countries were liberated from the Fascist yolk of Hitler's forces by the Soviet Union (or would they prefer to claim they were invaded a second time and that they preferred Hitler's Nazis?)

Latvia

As far as Latvia is concerned, the Latvian Waffen SS Division was staffed by Latvian officers and troops, not Germans and these carried out acts of almost indescribable cruelty in the concentration and extermination camps. Indeed, the Latvians began building concentration camps long before Hitler arrived on the scene – the Fascist dictator Karlis Ulmanis began building one in 1934.

The concentration and extermination camps in Latvia were not one or two. Apart from the infamous Mezaparks Camp at Kaiserwald near Riga, there were Daugavpils, Lenta, Liepaja, Strazdu Manor, Dundaga, Jelgava, Valmiera, Salaspils and Jumpravmuita. Between 70,000 and 85,000 Latvian Jews were exterminated in these camps, which counted on the willing collaboration and active participation of a substantial number of Latvians.

Estonia

Most of Estonia's 4,500 Jews managed to escape before the Nazi Panzers rolled over the border. However, sadly most of the 1,000 to 1,500 who remained were murdered. As in Latvia, this extermination policy counted on the willing participation of national citizens, the Estonian SS Division and the 287th Estonian Police Battalion bearing witness to this.

Estonia had even more concentration and extermination camps than Latvia: Auvere, Aseri, Dorpat, Ereda, Goldfields, Idu-Virumaa, Illinurme, Jagala, Johvi, Kalevi-Liiva, Kivioli, Klooga, Kukruse, Kunda, Kuremae, Lagedi, Narva, Narva-Joesuu, Petschur, Putki, Saka, Stara Gradiska, Sonda, Soski, Tartu, Vaivara, Viivikonna and Wesenburg. A violent anti-Romany policy was also carried out in this country, virtually annihilating all the country's gypsy population.

Lithuania

Here, complicity with the Germans in annihilating the Jewish population saw the extermination of between 135,000 and 220,000 people. Few survived the horrors of the camps at Kovno (Kaunas), Kauen, Slobodka, HKP at Vilna and Prawienischken.

Groups of Lithuanian youths began attacking Jews in Kovno even before the Germans invaded on 24th June 1941 and during the occupation, the Lithuanian auxiliaries of the Einsatzgruppe and the Lithuanian Security Police willingly carried out acts of mass butchery.

For these three countries painting a pretty picture of themselves at the expense of the Soviet Union, one has only to look through the long list of concentration and extermination camps built and functioning in just four years. Not bad for three small states in such a short space of time.

If the Soviet Union had not liberated them and put a stop to these satanic practices, who knows how many more innocent people would have been murdered?

The point is that all nations must accept their history, accepting the good along with the bad, for all countries have brilliant and heroic chapters of history and other chapters that are less brilliant and less heroic. Only by accepting the bad along with the good can a nation assume itself as a geo-political and social entity, move on and at the same time have open and friendly relations with its neighbours, instead of scowling at them and having a massive chip on their shoulder, like the three Baltic States".

[DanS]

Here's an article about an upcoming Neo-Nazi demonstration in the capital of Michigan. The Neo-Nazis are being allowed to gather on the capitol steps.

http://www.lansingcitypulse.com/060315/news/index2.asp

[DinoDoc]

The point is that all nations must accept their history, accepting the good along with the bad

Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Serb.