Barry Bonds... new book details performance enhancing drug use

[Sava]

Originally posted by Kontiki

Why didn't Canseco or Palmeiro or anyone else not named Bonds, McGwire or Sosa ever come close?

Palmeiro was a stick when he first came up. He had little power. Maybe you aren't aware of this because you aren't from Chicago, you don't follow baseball closely enough, or whatever. But Palmeiro, when he first came up with the Cubs, had little power. The Cubs dealt him to Texas, where, strangely enough, he was a teamate of Canseco's... then all of a sudden, he went on a power surge that took his career to new heights.

Funny how a guy at 28 hits his prime... then goes on to hit 35-40 homers well into his late 30's... especially when he had no power into his mid 20's.



Are you seriously denying the effect of steroids and other performance enhancing drugs?

I'm just asking now, so I can know whether or not to ignore all future posts from you on this subject.

[-Jrabbit]

So you guys don't think that breaking federal law on a felony level constitutes a violation of the morals clause that's in every MLB contract?

[rah]

If it wasn't against the rules, it wasn't cheating.
For those that say but it's illegal, so are emphatamines and we know they've been used in baseball for a long time. Good to see they're both looked at now.
Bud should be fired for waiting so long to address an obvious issue.

[Sava]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
So you guys don't think that breaking federal law on a felony level constitutes a violation of the morals clause that's in every MLB contract?

NO WAY MAN

it's not in baseballs' OFFICIAL RULES

so it's okay

Now tune into ESPN's new reality show starring Barry Bonds' wife... 7pm

[rah]

IF it's illegal, it's illegal.
It has to be in the rules before it's cheating.
It wasn't in the rules, so they're not cheaters.
It's illegal, so they broke the law.
Many baseball players have broken the law and continued to play. Some made it to the HOF.
Others in the future will too.

I don't like it and I would hold it against them, but I can't label them cheaters. (unless caught after the rules changes)

And I was always amused that the chubs traded raffy because he didn't hit for power. and ended up with Mark Grace.

[Stuie]

The only thing in anyone's mind now is to make and keep baseball what the millions of fans throughout the United States want it to be If I catch any crook in baseball the rest of his life is going to be a hot one.

Kenesaw Mountain Landis - Baseball's first Commissioner.

Ah, those were the days.

[Sava]

Originally posted by rah


I don't like it and I would hold it against them, but I can't label them cheaters.

Yes... you can


they knew what they were doing was wrong, whether it was officially in the rules or not

how come they aren't being honest about it? if they honestly believe they didn't do anything wrong, if they honestly believe they didn't cheat, how come they (or just Bonds) are lying about everything?

That's the key to this whole situation IMO.

Guilty consciences...

and as narcissistic as Bonds is, he knows he did something wrong... whether or not he believes it was wrong or not, he recognizes that most everyone else thinks its wrong...

[Sava]

WHO IS THIS SKINNY GUY?

[Sava]

he turned into this guy


funny how his head started growing after his mid 30's


must be a late bloomer

[Sava]

lol remember that simpsons episode with Ken Griffey jr and the nerve tonic LOL

[Ming]

Bonds doesn't want to admit he needed "help" to break the records... He also doesn't want to be known as the next steriod kid... as if his denials will change anything now.

And I hope they clean up baseball and other sports as well. Even the new rules and testing are strong enough in my opinion.

But... cheating is when you break the rules... and unfortunately, as much as you might hate them, think they are pond scum for taking them... steriod users weren't breaking the rules of baseball... because MLB was to chicken and had not real interest in outlawing them. The fact that they had to add it to the rules, and start testing shows that they weren't illegal under the rules before then.

[rah]

Originally posted by Sava
how come they aren't being honest about it? if they honestly believe they didn't do anything wrong, if they honestly believe they didn't cheat, how come they (or just Bonds) are lying about everything?

HINT: they weren't honest about it because it was Illegal.

Just like most players won't admit they were doing speed or whatever, pot and many others.

Go ahead and call them criminals for breaking the law, but by definition, they can't be called cheaters.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by rah

Just like most players won't admit they were doing speed or whatever, pot and many others.

Speaking of which, interesting article from the Inquirer this past Sunday:

Current Phillie took speed 'every day'

[Sava]

Originally posted by Ming

But... cheating is when you break the rules... and unfortunately, as much as you might hate them, think they are pond scum for taking them... steriod users weren't breaking the rules of baseball... because MLB was to chicken and had not real interest in outlawing them. The fact that they had to add it to the rules, and start testing shows that they weren't illegal under the rules before then.

well, if you still want to hang your hat on this "wasn't against the rules at the time" angle... whatever

it's a cop out, IMO

and jrabbit's point was good... about the morals clause... it will be interesting to see if anything happens regarding that because I have heard Bonds may end up forfeiting some of his salary.

I'm just waiting for 2pm

There's no rule against sticking a rocket up my ass, or getting cybernetic implants or something.

But that's cheating.

It's more about what is officially in the rules. It's about integrity and doing something illegal, taking illegal drugs to get an edge. To increase performance to break records to do all this stuff.

It's wrong. It's cheating. Period.

To me, it's just a shame that we've come to the point that we actually have to argue about whether or not taking steroids and other illegal performance enhancing drugs is actually cheating or not because it wasn't in the official rules at the time.

sad

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Sava

... or getting cybernetic implants or something.

When is baseball going to address this!