Free Will

[Lorizael]

Well yes, except that Fate, or whatever can prescribe that after I have come to this belief, I can also be dissuaded from it. Things aren't always the way they start out to be. Things change. But that can happen regardless of whether or not there is free will.

[loinburger]

In other words, Fate dictated that you should post a thread on a pointless topic because then you would be dissuaded from believing that Fate controls your actions?

[Odin]

Originally posted by loinburger

The value that Fate requires me to attach to it.

The whole "do I have free will" debate is just as pointless as the "am I a brain in a jar" debate. So maybe I'm a brain in a jar -- who gives a damn? I'll never be able to prove one way or the other whether I'm a brain in a jar, so I might as well just assume that I'm not a brain in a jar and get on with my life.

If you don't have free will, then we'll never be able to convince you that you have free will if Fate dictates that you believe that you don't have free will. So we're not going to waste our time in the endeavor, unless Fate dictates that we're supposed to waste our time swaying you from a point of view from which Fate has dicated that we cannot dissuade you. Round and round we go, until eventually one of us passes out from consuming too much alcohol.

Exactly.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by loinburger
In other words, Fate dictated that you should post a thread on a pointless topic because then you would be dissuaded from believing that Fate controls your actions?

Well, if there's no free will, then yes.

I've thought about this too much. This isn't just some stupid kid whining about his philosophical revelation or something. I've been developing a very coherent philosophy for the past couple years, and then a bit of logic led me a certain way, and then woops, I lost free will.

And if you happen to already believe in an amoral, unpredictable, deterministic universe, well, that kind of sucks. Because it definitely means there's absolutely no purpose to your life.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Odin
I don't beleive in free will and I haven't gone crazy.

Then perhaps you are crazy.

[Odin]

Originally posted by DaShi



Then perhaps you are crazy.

[OzzyKP]

Jenny, I don't know if Momma was
right or if, if it's Lieutenant Dan.
I don't know if we each have a
destiny, or if we're all just floating
around accidental-like on a breeze,
but I, I think maybe it's both. Maybe
both is happening at the same time.
I miss you, Jenny. If there's anything
you need, I won't be far away.

[MrFun]

Free will was just a fad -- it went out of style by the end of 2005.

[Urban Ranger]

As usual, it depends on what do you mean by "freewill:"

- Is it some kind of mythical ability in humans that let us make decisions contravene to laws of physics? You have to be crazy to believe this.

- That we have a perceived ability to choose from a set of apparent choices. This seems to be self-evident.

- That the universe is ultimately probabilistic? Maybe.

[Lorizael]

But all living organisms are granted choices. We just seem to have a greater ability to interpret those choices.

[Lorizael]

This is silly. The free will debate is very very old. No one, including myself, is going to say anything new. Everyone also has different concepts of what free will actually is. But, well, I created the thread, so I have only myself to blame. Or the universe. Or something.

[DaShi]

Did you create this thread?

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Lorizael
This is silly. The free will debate is very very old. No one, including myself, is going to say anything new. Everyone also has different concepts of what free will actually is. But, well, I created the thread, so I have only myself to blame. Or the universe. Or something.

You were pre-destined to create this thread.


To answer, hell yes free will exists. Sure the environment and other constraints limit the choices you are presented with, but the range of chocie we all have is still incredibly large. We make thousands of decisions every day. Each decision leads to a thousand reprecussions. Events that can turn out greatly different based on our individual choices.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Lorizael
And if you happen to already believe in an amoral, unpredictable, deterministic universe, well, that kind of sucks. Because it definitely means there's absolutely no purpose to your life.

Why do you think people flock to religion?

But seriously, the belief in a deterministic universe doesn't correspond to our scientific knowledge so far. Maybe it is your belief in determinism that is to blame. The logical consequence of determinism is indeed the belief that free will doesn't exist, just like there is no leeway for anything in that universe.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Lorizael
But all living organisms are granted choices. We just seem to have a greater ability to interpret those choices.

Choices don't mean anything unless some organism is equipped with the intelligence to make them. Of course, choices might not be what they seem.

For example, a dog comes to a fork in the road. How will it "choose?"

Maybe it doesn't have to, since it could smell the scent of its master going down one of them.