Stalin and the Struggle for Democratic Reform

[Propaganda]

Originally posted by Saras


Oops, almost 10% of lithuanian population killed. Sorry, my MISTAKE!

Does that percentage also include Lithuanian Nazi collaborators that died during the war?

[Propaganda]

Originally posted by C0ckney
what is it with russians that makes them believe this sort of rubbish?

Who made you judge, jury and executioner of Russian history and culture?

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Propaganda
Who made you judge, jury and executioner of Russian history and culture?

I can't believe that a Russian would want to denigrate their own rich culture and history by picking Stalin as their hero. He wasn't even Russian.

It'd be like a German choosing Hitler as their favorite figure in German history. Baffling.

[Propaganda]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Well Propaganda disputes all the purges and killings. He probably won't dispute ending the NEP. And it was important in turning Stalin into an absolute dictator. He took complete control of the economy... and in order to do so killed Ukrainians. Also if you have total control of the economy, chances are you don't allow a free democratic process.

Basically, from that innocuous statement, comes a whole host of 'undemocratic' actions.

Unfortunately, I don't see the world in black and white as you do.

The USSR, at that time, was underdoing a revolutionary transformation, even after Stalin's death, and as you know, revolutions aren't just bread and butter; they are always bloody affairs...you know, like the French and American Revolutions? But I digress. There's no point in quibbling over semantics, now, don't you think so?

And, please, don't put words in my mouth. I have never stated or implied that I dispute the "purges", but only in the manner and circumstances they were concluded.

Anyway, here's a list of recommended reading for all of you to view at your own leisure. Perhaps this may interest you. Enjoy.

Stalinism: New Directions (Rewriting Histories)

Origins of the Great Purges : The Soviet Communist Party Reconsidered, 1933-1938 (Cambridge Russian, Soviet and Post-Soviet Studies)

The Years of Hunger : Soviet Agriculture, 1931-1933 (The Industrialization of Soviet Russia)

The Affirmative Action Empire: Nations and Nationalism in the Soviet Union, 1923-1939 (Wilder House Series in Politics, History, and Culture)

[Imran Siddiqui]

And, please, don't put words in my mouth. I have never stated or implied that I dispute the "purges", but only in the manner and circumstances they were concluded.

He butched people for a noble cause

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Arrian
@ Propaganda.

It's all lies! Lies, I tell you! Forgeries! It was the CIA!

-Arrian

You'd be amazed how often this works. The Chinese are doing that with Mao right now. Decades of propaganda build on one another until an absolute butcher becomes this good intentioned saint who was just caught up in the circumstances.

[Propaganda]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

And, please, don't put words in my mouth. I have never stated or implied that I dispute the "purges", but only in the manner and circumstances they were concluded.

He butched people for a noble cause

"....from sea to shining sea"

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well... Stalin was too late for that. Catherine already beat him to it. Though I'm sure Comrade Stalin would have butchered people for the right .

[Propaganda]

Oh yes, it was his Manifest Destiny.

Too bad he didn't live long enough to fulfill it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well, West Germany and France were in the way, and they were protected by nukes.

So Stalin did the next best thing and slaughtered people in his own country! Ukraine? Too many people there.

[Vince278]

Serb must be ill. I hope he gets well soon.

[Krill]

Serb, where are you?

[monolith94]

If Stalin was increasingly trying to make things more democratic, then why did the state film system become more and more controlled each year? Under the NEP, you could have idiosyncratic, formalist films that were actually good, but then in 1932 socialist realism became the ONLY ALLOWABLE FILM ART. No democracy would state that there was only one allowable film art. Furthermore, films would be screened for Stalin and he would give comments on them, and these comments would be acted out on. As Stalinism continued to grow, films became ever more hagiographies of Stalin himself. I've SEEN The fall of berlin, both part 1 and part 2. I KNOW what films the Soviet Union was producing at the time and they were not indicative of a society growing more democratic but rather more totalitarian.

Stalin had absolute power - he could've had democracy anytime he wanted. But for him that could never have been an option.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Wycoff
It'd be like a German choosing Hitler as their favorite figure in German history. Baffling.

Look, guys, I'm not saying Hitler was a saint or so, but he had a cute little moustache and built the Autobahn!

Germany, at that time, was underdoing a fundamental transformation, and as you know, these things aren't just bread and butter; they are always bloody affairs...you know, like the French and American Revolutions? But I digress. There's no point in quibbling over semantics, now, don't you think so?

And I don't dispute that mistakes were made under Hitler's rule, but hey, we're all humans, so who are we to judge?

[Arrian]