Stalin and the Struggle for Democratic Reform

[Propaganda]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Oerdin, meet Propaganda.

Good one. Now, pat yourself on the head using both hands.

[Propaganda]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I don't think anyone is stupid enough to believe Stalin was anything other then a butcher and totalitarian dictator. They don't call it Stalinism for nothing.

I'm not implying that Stalin was an absolute saint, or manna sent from heaven.

I'm just saying that Stalin should be re-examined, specifically in the constructs of the era he, himself lived in.

He made mistakes, but we all do, and I don't see how all of them were intentionally harmful to Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, etc.

Fact is, the USSR almost bled to death during World War II, and the USSR set the task of not just rebuilding itself, but the Eastern European countries. They all accomplished that great feat in just 5 years. During 60s and 70s, the Caucasian republics, Hungary, Bulgaria, Czhechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, East Germany, and yes, even North Korea were all prosperous, even compared to Western Europe, and all of that was built on "Stalin's" infrastructure.

Maybe some of the former Soviet bloc can claim they were politically-influenced by the USSR, but they can't say they were economically-dominated, because the USSR was just as dependent on them.

[notyoueither]

Baby, do you understand me now,
Sometimes I feel a little mad.
But, don't you know that no one alive can always be an angel.
When things go wrong I feel real bad.

I'm just a soul whose intentions are good,
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood.

Baby, sometimes I'm so carefree,
With a joy that's hard to hide.
And sometimes it seems that, all I have to do is worry
And then you're bound to see my other side.

I'm just a soul whose intentions are good,
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood.

If I seem edgy,
I want you to know,
That I never mean to take it out on you.

Life has its problems,
And I get my share,
And that's one thing I never mean to do,

'Cause I love you,
Oh,

Oh, oh, oh, baby - don't you know I'm human.
I have thoughts like any other one.
Sometimes I find myself, Lord, regretting,
Some foolish thing - some little simple thing I've done.

I'm just a soul whose intentions are good,
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood.

[notyoueither]

Somehow, one imagines a lack of patience for some people singing that song.

[Az]

If Stalin was really a 'democrat' why did he deep six the NEP in favor of centralized planning?

From all the things you can attack Stalin on being undemocratic, this is the last, located near "wears a moustache"

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
This thread is great.

Yeah, the thread title alone is pure gold

[Az]

Yeah, the thread title alone is pure gold

It's like "The Hitler Society for interethnical understanding"

[BeBMan]

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Propaganda


I'm not implying that Stalin was an absolute saint, or manna sent from heaven.

I'm just saying that Stalin should be re-examined, specifically in the constructs of the era he, himself lived in.

He made mistakes, but we all do, and I don't see how all of them were intentionally harmful to Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, etc.

Fact is, the USSR almost bled to death during World War II, and the USSR set the task of not just rebuilding itself, but the Eastern European countries. They all accomplished that great feat in just 5 years. During 60s and 70s, the Caucasian republics, Hungary, Bulgaria, Czhechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, East Germany, and yes, even North Korea were all prosperous, even compared to Western Europe, and all of that was built on "Stalin's" infrastructure.

Maybe some of the former Soviet bloc can claim they were politically-influenced by the USSR, but they can't say they were economically-dominated, because the USSR was just as dependent on them.

He killed more of his own people than the Germans, how cam it be said he didn't intentionally harm them.

Ask the baltic states if they were grateful for his intervention.

I'd like to see if he would tell a Pole to hid face Stalin didn'tintentionaly harm them. I mean he only invaded tehm and massacred anyone he didn't like.

[Saras]

Originally posted by Propaganda
I'm not implying that Stalin was an absolute saint, or manna sent from heaven.
<...>
He made mistakes, but we all do, and I don't see how all of them were intentionally harmful to Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, etc.

Oops, almost 10% of lithuanian population killed. Sorry, my MISTAKE!

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Propaganda

His reply:

For an english teacher he manages to fill the page, yet somehow manages to say very little. His defense (or "defense" as he seems to prefer) is basically saying that it is everyone else who is crazy and incapable of discussing the issue. Even if I were approaching the subject with no established opinion it would be hard to support this jackass over the guy from Harvard. At least he was clear, concise, specific and believed in the ability of others to utilize their talents to find the truth. In other words, he doesn't seem to be dim or barking mad like this turd.

[Arrian]

@ Propaganda.

It's all lies! Lies, I tell you! Forgeries! It was the CIA!

-Arrian

[C0ckney]

what is it with russians that makes them believe this sort of rubbish?

[Arrian]

Well, I can at least understand Russians falling for this sort of bull****... nationalism and all that. The professor in New Jersey, otoh!?! What a shmuck.

-Arrian

[civman2000]

Where is Serb??