Danish embassy invaded - Part II

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Az

I dont much care how someone else raises their children. In any case not in the same category as folks using violence to impose their values, denying the possibility of moderations, being humorless and filled with hatred, killing for ideology, etc, etc. All of which were done by secularist fanatics in the last century.

Indoctrination is indoctrination. The use of force is there, whether it's a systematic use of force (banning of religious congregation) or "decentralized" towards the family unit.

Indoctrination isnt the issue. Certainly not the tendency of all cultures and ways of thinking to replicate themselves through family structure (oddly, i find children of left agnostics in Manhattan are also often left wing agnostics, while children of secularist Zionists are also often secularist Zionists, etc, etc)

Look, if you think family life is indoctrination, then you can justify some attacks on the privacy of family life that are not at all compatible with a free society. You can take away children from their parents to avoid "indoctrination" You can have children monitor their parents to make sure it doesnt happen, and report to the state on it. Hell you can and probably should censor magazines and newspapers that parents can use in their "indoctrination".

You either make a principle stand for freedom, or you dont. (Well you coul go Ozzys rout and challenge the authority of parents in general, but that wont work for preschoolers)

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by laurentius
They are simply just following the law and acting upon it. What the FM Mr. Tuomioja did was he simply opened a dialogue towards the muslim countries. There was no apologise but a clear condemnation of the violence, and his opinion that deliberately insulting another religion is wrong. I dont see what else could he have written since that is what the law says, and ministers have to act according to the laws.

PM is above FM, so let's hear him:

http://english.people.com.cn/200602/15/eng20060215_242763.html

Finnish Prime Minister Matti Vanhanen said Tuesday in Turin that he was sorry that the cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammad had been posted on the website of Suomen Sisu, a Finnish right-wing nationalist group.

"I regret that the cartoons deeply hurting the feelings of the Muslim world have been published on the homepage of a small group of Finnish extremists," Vanhanen said in Turin, Italy, according to a statement from the Prime Minister's Office.

"I am particularly disappointed that in Finland (we) also have individuals who want to insult the values considered sacred by Islam," he said. "I wish to apologize on my own behalf and on behalf of the Finnish Government that the religious feelings of Muslims have thus been offended also in Finland."

Apology

And this guy will preside over EU? Will someone think of the children?

[Az]

Indoctrination isnt the issue. Certainly not the tendency of all cultures and ways of thinking to replicate themselves through family structure (oddly, i find children of left agnostics in Manhattan are also often left wing agnostics, while children of secularist Zionists are also often secularist Zionists, etc, etc)

often, yes, but not nearly in the same amount. I am nothing like my dad, nor my mom, in my ideas. Well I do share some ideas with them, but it isn't because of indoctrination. children of secular people are usually different. They have different tastes, have different views on many issues. Other people just produce mental clones... or at least strive to.

Look, if you think family life is indoctrination, then you can justify some attacks on the privacy of family life that are not at all compatible with a free society. You can take away children from their parents to avoid "indoctrination" You can have children monitor their parents to make sure it doesnt happen, and report to the state on it. Hell you can and probably should censor magazines and newspapers that parents can use in their "indoctrination".

AND SEND THEM ALL TO A GULAG

I do wonder, however, how is a society freer when you have a right to basically force ideas down the throat of someone just because you are their parent.

You either make a principle stand for freedom, or you dont. (Well you coul go Ozzys rout and challenge the authority of parents in general, but that wont work for preschoolers)

Preschoolers do have a right not to be indoctrinated. That right is very important not so much because of them, but because our ability to have a debate as a society depends on the ability of people to change their mind ( duh). The latter is a function of not only the strength of argument recieved but how fundamentally entreched are certain ideas in an individual. This also means that in our debate, a fundamentalist has a natural advantage.

[Gangerolf]

Originally posted by Az

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=264298&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__international_news/

Italy doesn't sell out

Guess who just resigned.

[Gangerolf]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4727606.stm

The Italian reform minister who angered Muslims by wearing a T-shirt decorated with Western media cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammad has resigned.

Roberto Calderoli stepped down a day after rioting outside the Italian consulate in the Libyan city of Benghazi led to at least 10 deaths.

Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi had also urged him to go.

[Krill]

Bah, pathetic.

[Spiffor]

The guy bears a large responsibility for 10 deaths. He knew that it'd stir much trouble, he knew what kind of trouble that would stir (unlike Jyllands Posten), and he did it purposefully. 10 people are dead now.

[VetLegion]

Let embassies burn, don't kill people. It's just a building for crying out loud.

[Dr Strangelove]

I wonder how much longer this thing can be sustained?

Our local paper claims that the boycott has begun to hurt the Danish economy. We should all consider sampling some Havarti cheese. I'm thinking about buying some Lego sets and donating them to a children's charity. Perhaps someone would consider renaming Legos "Freedom Blocks".

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Spiffor
The guy bears a large responsibility for 10 deaths. He knew that it'd stir much trouble, he knew what kind of trouble that would stir (unlike Jyllands Posten), and he did it purposefully. 10 people are dead now.

I don't think he's responsible for the protestor's deaths. They had the option of withdrawing peacefully when the police arrived. As far as the protestor's lives being more valuable than the buildings, remember that the embassy may have been occupied when the protest started. What would you do if the building you were working in was surrounded by a bloodthirsty mob? Trying to leave might prove fatal.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
I wonder how much longer this thing can be sustained?

Our local paper claims that the boycott has begun to hurt the Danish economy. We should all consider sampling some Havarti cheese. I'm thinking about buying some Lego sets and donating them to a children's charity. Perhaps someone would consider renaming Legos "Freedom Blocks".

What paper is that ?

Unless I'm totally mistaken, then the boycott is something like 5-10 % of our surplus on foreign trade.

Anyway, buy those legos to the children - they will probably like them no matter why you do it

[Dr Strangelove]

OK, but may we have your permission to rename them "Freedom Blocks"?

[BlackCat]

Your'e welcome - just don't expect this to have any legal value

[Pyrodrew]

Iran follows America's lead

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
OK, but may we have your permission to rename them "Freedom Blocks"?

Everyone who is anyone is renaming these days.
All the cool countries are doing it.

Iran Renames Danish Pastries to "Roses of the Prophet Muhammad"

[BlackCat]

Re: Iran follows America's lead

Originally posted by Pyrodrew


Everyone who is anyone is renaming these days.
All the cool countries are doing it.

Iran Renames Danish Pastries to "Roses of the Prophet Muhammad"

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148725