Danish embassy invaded

[Pekka]

Elok, wow, you really think this won't happen in the future either? You think this is the fault of the magazine? They drew a freaking cartoon.

If there are people in this planet who can't take it, too bad! You can go and give up those rights right now if you are afraid to fight or die. But if you do, you can't come back. You are suggesting we all just submit under threats? No way. Freedom of press and speech is VITAL in its entire form. Period. It overrides some sensitive peoples feelings, even if they threaten to use nukes.

THat's the way I see it.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by germanos
More and more I get an uneasy feeling...

Calls for moderation, like the one I linked to from Jack Straw, are countered with the message: all that the cartoons published by Jyllands-Posten do is ***-for-tat for what the muslims do.
In other words: it's fine to deliberately post defematory pics, articles etc. since they do the same.
And, offcourse the underlying message is: finally we get revenge.

As I had feared, the issue is not about free speech, but about the right to take an eye for an eye.
A value that all three monotheistic religeons hold so very dear.

I think you're the only one reading revenge into this. They're pointing out the hypocrisy of them protesting seemingly offensive cartoons featuring Mohammed while at the same time Muslim newspaper print far crueler cartoons demeaning other cultures and claim the protection of free speech. In addition, this is usually mentioned as an aside to the main argument of free speech. Your assumption of revenge seems like very biased thinking.

Now I'll agree that the picture does lack cultural sensitivity and some action of dissatisfaction by Muslim communities is understandable. However, I stand beside free speech.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by germanos
More and more I get an uneasy feeling...

Calls for moderation, like the one I linked to from Jack Straw, are countered with the message: all that the cartoons published by Jyllands-Posten do is ***-for-tat for what the muslims do.
In other words: it's fine to deliberately post defematory pics, articles etc. since they do the same.
And, offcourse the underlying message is: finally we get revenge.

As I had feared, the issue is not about free speech, but about the right to take an eye for an eye.
A value that all three monotheistic religeons hold so very dear.

I'm afraid you're missing the point entirely.

Cartoons in the press of Muslim countries have not resulted in violence against Muslims or Muslim countries.

Televised beheadings have not resulted in violence against Muslims or Muslim countries.

The point is the violence being done as part of the reaction to these cartoons. Admittedly the largest offender, the Prophet with a bomb for a hat is egregiously insensitive, and the poor taste of the cartoonist and the publisher should be the story, however it is not. That is the point.

[Elok]

I think it's partly "their fault." It doesn't have to be one side's or the other's. Certainly these people are crazy, so it's the responsibility of the side that should know better not to make trouble.

I don't think they should be prevented from printing whatever they please, I just think anybody who keeps printing these stupid things to prove a point is an inconsiderate schlep.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Elok
I think it's partly "their fault." It doesn't have to be one side's or the other's. Certainly these people are crazy, so it's the responsibility of the side that should know better not to make trouble.

I don't think they should be prevented from printing whatever they please, I just think anybody who keeps printing these stupid things to prove a point is an inconsiderate schlep.

Know better not to make trouble? You mean like commuters in Madrid or London?

I'm sure the editors of the Danish paper are sorry for exposing the nature of the world you live in to you.

You don't want your comfortable life disrupted. OK, fine. Sit down and don't do anything. You may hope that others will be able to carry the extra weight and you can go on living your near worthless existence by riding on their coat-tails.

[Jac de Molay]

Originally posted by Elok
I think it's partly "their fault." It doesn't have to be one side's or the other's. Certainly these people are crazy, so it's the responsibility of the side that should know better not to make trouble.

Depends what you mean by making trouble. Theo Van Gogh made a film that, rightly IMO, flaunted Islamic rules and tenets to point out the mistreatment of women in Islam, and paid for it with his life. Sometimes you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet....

I don't think they should be prevented from printing whatever they please, I just think anybody who keeps printing these stupid things to prove a point is an inconsiderate schlep.

Agreed. I stand by the paper-in-question when it invokes free speech, but the other papers picking up the comics and running them seem only like so much trolling and baiting.

Jac

[Donegeal]

Originally posted by Elok
So they're deliberately provoking violence (they'd have to be sublimely stupid to not expect such a reaction), and then sanctimoniously claiming their right to freedom of the press.

Yeah, they were so sublimely stupid to think this was going to make such an uproar that THEY DID IT FIVE MONTHS AGO! To sit here and say that they knew it would cause this much of an uproar when they only got a little at the begining and then nothing for 4 months is the sublimely stupid part.

What happened was the Muslims in Denmark didn't feel that it was that big of a deal. The Danish Imans didn't like that so they took it back to the Middle East. So who is the ones trying to stir up trouble?

[Donegeal]

Originally posted by Jac de Molay
Agreed. I stand by the paper-in-question when it invokes free speech, but the other papers picking up the comics and running them seem only like so much trolling and baiting.

Jac

Trolling and baiting? How about supporting the first newspaper? Do you realize that official government ambassabors have been withdrawn because the Danish government isn't punishing the newspaper? Boycotts of an entire country. Individual death threats, attempted kidnappings and wholesale destruction by suicide bombers? This is serious ****. The only way I can see this going away is if everyone prints the damn cartoons. If everyone does it, then they (the muslims) would have to attempt to bycott everybody which just wouldn't work.

Please, if you can think of something, tell us how you would subdue the situation.

[Flip McWho]

Go the papers

Free Speech

People take themselves too seriously sometimes and thats whats wrong with the world.

[Agathon]

I don't think they should be prevented from printing whatever they please, I just think anybody who keeps printing these stupid things to prove a point is an inconsiderate schlep.

Yep..

Imagine if a Canadian newspaper printed cartoons stereotyping black people or making fun of the holocaust. There would be an absolute uproar, similar to the way the Koreans and Chinese feel when the Japanese make light of their wartime atrocities.

Every society has certain topics that are considered taboo. It's no different in the West except that we care about different things.

Having said that, there is always room for legitimate satire, but that's different from deliberately trying to stir up racial intolerance, which is the first thing that occurred to me when I looked at these cartoons.

[notyoueither]

Canadians would hardly threaten to blow things up, or kidnap random people who 'look like the infidel' were Saudi papers, or any other for that matter, to print anything they wanted.

And yes, there would be an uproar in Canada if people in our media said or printed certain things. It would be a verbal uproar. Don Cherry would get his say, and then 10 or 15 million Canadians would get theirs, some with him and some against. In the end, Cherry would still be on the CBC, and no one would have been kidnapped, no buildings occupied at gunpoint, and no one murdered.

[Elok]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Canadians would hardly threaten to blow things up, or kidnap random people who 'look like the infidel' were Saudi papers, or any other for that matter, to print anything they wanted.

And yes, there would be an uproar in Canada if people in our media said or printed certain things. It would be a verbal uproar. Don Cherry would get his say, and then 10 or 15 million Canadians would get theirs, some with him and some against. In the end, Cherry would still be on the CBC, and no one would have been kidnapped, no buildings occupied at gunpoint, and no one murdered.

Kindly don't be stupid. I'm sure Canadian culture is very superior. But these are not Canadians. These are crazy, violent people with their backs against the wall and their teeth bared. Now, unless you're willing to personally fight to the death to change that, cut the machismo crap. High-minded talk does nothing.

[notyoueither]

Kindly piss off and read what I responded to.

[notyoueither]

It's not too hard to find. It's right above that bit you quoted.

Should I draw you a map?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Canadians would hardly threaten to blow things up, or kidnap random people who 'look like the infidel' were Saudi papers, or any other for that matter, to print anything they wanted.

And yes, there would be an uproar in Canada if people in our media said or printed certain things. It would be a verbal uproar. Don Cherry would get his say, and then 10 or 15 million Canadians would get theirs, some with him and some against. In the end, Cherry would still be on the CBC, and no one would have been kidnapped, no buildings occupied at gunpoint, and no one murdered.

That's because Canadians are wimps.

Print stuff that offends people in the US and there will be no shortage of extremist media figures calling for your death.