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Originally posted by Joseph
Then in about 12 hours or less a US SSBN would be in range with 20 C 5, each with 10 warhead and Iran would just be gone.
As satisfying as that sounds I would not recommend a massive retaliation. The immediate fallout would fall over Pakistan, India, and China making them very unhappy. The long term effects would be global. A measured response would be better (an eye for an eye, not 200 eyes for an eye).
"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
2004 Presidential Candidate
2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)
Yes, everyone must think exactly alike. How stupid of me to believe that everyone in the world's governments wouldn't share your conclusions.
Please forgive me for assuming that a leadership that has had no education in any international relations, never left their own boarders, spent a lifetime studying fundamentalist religious precepts, and promotes the election of leaders that want to "wipe them off the map" could ever have a different thought than yours.
Um... Iran is not the Congo. It's not that much different from Pakistan, and in fact its government is more accountable than the jokers currently running Pakistan, who like everyone else have found themselves stuck in a deterrence stalemate.
My question is: why are you such a racist? The attitude of virtually all conservative posters in this thread is that Iranians, by virtue of being Iranian, are somehow a bunch of barbarous savages. Guess what.. many Iranians think the same of Americans and both are wrong. Why must you persist in thinking that these jibber-jabbering foreigners have no understanding of international relations?
Frankly, all you Tories are racists who think that the rational white people need to run the lives of the irrational non-Aryans. Y'see those ******s just can't be trusted to run their own affairs...
And why do you disgrace your posts by disgracing the name of a philosopher about whom you know nothing?
Why is it considered irrational to want nuclear weapons when the world's only superpower, which itself has nuclear weapons, states that you are a member of an "Axis of Evil" which is to be eliminated.
That's why the North Koreans want them.. to deter US attack. It's one of the few rational things about the North Korean government.
Except both those programs started well before Bush was elected.
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
Originally posted by Agathon
It's one of the few rational things about the North Korean government.
Paranoia does not equal rational.
(BTW, has anyone reported your indiscriminate use of the N-word yet?)
"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
2004 Presidential Candidate
2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)
Originally posted by Agathon
My question is: why are you such a racist?
That question exceeds the limit of the stupid meter.
If you had read what was posted, it was several items...and none of them had anything to do with race. (This of course assumes that you can read...)
Sad that the last refuge of a liberal is always the "race card"
There are more than one viewpoint on matters. While you make many good points (and I don't necessarily disagree with all of them), your myopic view that yours is the only viewpoint is frightenly disturbing...
"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003
Why is it considered irrational to want nuclear weapons when the world's only superpower, which itself has nuclear weapons, states that you are a member of an "Axis of Evil" which is to be eliminated.
That's why the North Koreans want them.. to deter US attack. It's one of the few rational things about the North Korean government.
I don't believe anybody said that it was irrational to want them...just dangerous for them to have them.
As much time as posters here spend talking of the danger of Christian fundamentalist causing war in this country...it is incredible that they assume that muslim fundamentalist will act rationally.
Talk about your double standard.
"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Except both those programs started well before Bush was elected.
Shhh....you'll blow the whole argument for the libs. And then who would I get to laugh at?
"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003
I don't believe anybody said that it was irrational to want them...just dangerous for them to have them.
As much time as posters here spend talking of the danger of Christian fundamentalist causing war in this country...it is incredible that they assume that muslim fundamentalist will act rationally.
Talk about your double standard.
It's dangerous for anyone to have them, but there isn't any real alternative now.
FTR I don't think that the real fundies will ever gain political power, and Shrub isn't likely to start a nuclear war on purpose either -- because even he isn't that stupid.
That question exceeds the limit of the stupid meter.
If you had read what was posted, it was several items...and none of them had anything to do with race. (This of course assumes that you can read...)
Sad that the last refuge of a liberal is always the "race card"
There are more than one viewpoint on matters. While you make many good points (and I don't necessarily disagree with all of them), your myopic view that yours is the only viewpoint is frightenly disturbing...
You calling me stupid? That's a laugh.
You and the other fascists continually act as if there is something special about the Iranians that would make them likely to buck the trend and launch an aggressive nuclear war. In fact you all spend your time assuming that we are so much better than them that they are likely to do weird and irrational things, just because they are foreign.
Whether it's constant spouting on about the superiority of our Western moral character or whatever, the conservative world view is deeply racist. The worst thing is that most of you don't even realize it.
You lot were saying this about the Soviet Union 25 years ago. That was a BS claim and so is your current one. If Pakistan, a military dictatorship that sponsored terrorism and has engaged in numerous wars with a neighbour that it detests, does not seem a likely candidate for launching an aggressive nuclear war, then Iran, a country which has been involved in one war (which it didn't start), and which has a far less disturbing record of sponsoring terrorists, and which in addition is not a military dictatorship, seems an even less likely candidate.
And again.. there is no evidence that Iran is breaking the law. Until such evidence emerges, you have no case... nothing... nada... zip.
Originally posted by Agathon
And again.. there is no evidence that Iran is breaking the law. Until such evidence emerges, you have no case... nothing... nada... zip.
Law? I don't think law has anything to do with it. US law does not apply because they are not in the US. We also have nothing to do with Iranian laws. The issue here is that they are breaking international agreements and the world community is understandably concerned.
"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
2004 Presidential Candidate
2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)
Originally posted by Agathon
The attitude of virtually all conservative posters in this thread is that Iranians, by virtue of being Iranian, are somehow a bunch of barbarous savages. Guess what.. many Iranians think the same of Americans and both are wrong. Why must you persist in thinking that these jibber-jabbering foreigners have no understanding of international relations?
Frankly, all you Tories are racists who think that the rational white people need to run the lives of the irrational non-Aryans.
Technically, Iranians are Aryans. Even Hitler thought so.
EDIT: For the record, I don't think that this thread is really based on a left/right split. I consider myself to be right wing. However, I also consider myself to be a "realist" when it comes to geopolitics.
I am strongly opposed to the Wilsonian"neo-conservative" philosophy that pervades the U.S. I think that those who assume that Iran would act like a rational state are more likely to be "realists", whereas people framing the debate in more emotional terms are more likely Wilsonian or neoconservative. I've found that adherents to those types of philosphies tend to divide the world into two sides and make judgements depending upon the side in which the state has been placed. Realists tend to evaluate each state on its own merits.
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
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