Are people who believe in the Death Penalty by definition Evil?

[Whaleboy]

Evil is, by definition, a self-contradictory, absurd concept.

Capital punishment is, by definition, a self-contradictory, absurd concept.

The answer then, is yes.

[Arrian]

If you do something bad to someone else, you have opened up your whole tribe to a simular retribution action. Bad ranges from things like killing another tribes pigs to killing/rapeing of people.

Oh, that's just brilliant. Surely a good system for an advanced, civilized society!

Can you say cycle of violence? Vigilante-ism (sp?)? Raping family members of the criminal, that's sooo much better!

-Arrian

[Agathon]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat

Handwringingwimpitivism is a wholly discredited notion - it has no rational justification. Sure people feel like coddling and subsidizing the life of the most heinous murderers, but the way people simply feel is not a sufficient basis for public policy.

How about some argument, or are you just going to run away again?

[Agathon]

If you do something bad to someone else, you have opened up your whole tribe to a simular retribution action.

What's the justification for this? I know they might want to seek retribution, but that doesn't entitle them to it. Hell, I'd like to be tag teamed by Jennifer Aniston and Kristanna Loken, but sadly I cannot seem to work out a reason for why this ought to happen.

Just what is the logic of retributivism? At least the deterrence people have some explanation for why they punish people.

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by Arrian


Oh, that's just brilliant. Surely a good system for an advanced, civilized society!

Can you say cycle of violence? Vigilante-ism (sp?)? Raping family members of the criminal, that's sooo much better!

-Arrian

........but the whole point of the system was that it doesn't happen very often. in fact all the crime that happens in png today has been a result of the 'westernising' of the younger generation, and trying to use our legal sytem to maintain peace. where the old law is strong and the principle rule of law - bad crimes very rarely happen. dont forget the 'shaming' system - it works like the ancient european notion of 'honor' if that makes it easier to digest.

put it this way. If we all had a real belief in honour - would crime go up or down? that aspect of the system is crucial.

[Arrian]

Shame can be effective, yeah. But I just don't see how "mututally assured gang rape" is effective for keeping the peace.

-Arrian

[child of Thor]

well sure it sounds harsh......but think on that, with the addition of that shame system. look at your family/close friends(to get that tribal feeling) would you want to do a crime that could result in them being harmed?

I'm just providing you with a snapshot into a comletely different world it was my privaledge to be part of for many years.
I dont have definate answers, just some weird and wild experiences of this world

[Arrian]

The worst criminals would just abuse the hell out of it - they don't give a **** about their family/tribe!

Even if it was effective, it was effective in a particular culture. Not in ours.

-Arrian

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Agathon


How about some argument, or are you just going to run away again?

It depends. Hopefully I'm as low a priority in the overall scope of your life as you are in mine.

My time availability is pretty sporadic, but I'm here off and on.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Arrian
The worst criminals would just abuse the hell out of it - they don't give a **** about their family/tribe!

Even if it was effective, it was effective in a particular culture. Not in ours.

-Arrian

You're right there. True killers don't care about consequences to others. But then again capital punishment is fighting evil with evil.

A criminal has done some murders. Will killing the man solve anything? Society doesn't become anymore safer.
In fact society only becomes safer when proper attention is given to people who need care, and who turn wild without it.

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by Arrian
The worst criminals would just abuse the hell out of it - they don't give a **** about their family/tribe!

Even if it was effective, it was effective in a particular culture. Not in ours.

-Arrian

yeah this is its failing point . If only we could regain our 'honour' once more

[Agathon]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


It depends. Hopefully I'm as low a priority in the overall scope of your life as you are in mine.

My time availability is pretty sporadic, but I'm here off and on.

In other words... yes.

[Berzerker]

the people who equate capital punishment with murder are just as ignorant as the people who equate abortion with murder...

as ignorant as people who dont see a difference between a murderer and a baby (or "fetus")?

the reason is that state justice is not really always justice, thus innocents will always be killed along with the guilty ----> therefore no DP. State has no right to kill innocent people, even if this is just "collateral damage" while killing the "evil" people.

If that was a valid argument, we couldn't jail murderers for life because some innocent people will be collateral damage.

[Berzerker]

True killers don't care about consequences to others. But then again capital punishment is fighting evil with evil

A criminal has done some murders. Will killing the man solve anything?

First, justifiable homicide is a valid concept and it isn't "evil". Second, think about the other people who will be near this guy for the next 40 years even if he doesn't break out. If he kills people in jail, are they collateral damage of the no death penalty policy?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Pro-Life means you are against killing period. War. Abortion. DP. Anything.

I am not sure about where you are, but where I was in the US pro-life and anti-abortion were (still are) synonymous. Pro-life is just an euphemism.

Originally posted by Patroklos
Anti-Abortion just means what it says. There is no hypocricy there unless you equate killing inocent children with killing guilty adults (guilty through their free will actions).

Certainly. Destruction of a blob of cells without sentience is clearly different from state sanctioned murder of human beings.

The question is why there are people who wish to ban the former while wholeheartedly support the latter. It simply boggles the mind.