CanPol: Thread of the Year Edition

[Ben Kenobi]

KH, you are right. The NDP won all of 10 and 13 seats in Ontario, in 1988 and 1984. Which does what to my argument? The PCs won in Ontario, as every other governing party has done, at least as far back as Diefenbaker. The Conservatives had a huge base of support in Ontario, in 1984, they had more seats from Ontario then they had in Quebec.

[Ben Kenobi]

Quebec denied the use of its territory. The federal government has no say in forcing a province to let another province use its territory.

Canada gave that territory to Quebec. I think they can choose to take it away.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by November Adam
KH,

I personally don't mind the idea of the Senate being based on 4 regions, with a 1/4 going to each. It would be at least balanced. Honestly I don't think there will be many systems where everyone will be happy, but you do have to admit that there is a real disparity in regions at the moment

I think that from 1993 to 2004 the Liberals ruled using a base of support in Ontario and picking up needed seats throughout the rest of the country. I think that this gave Ontario extra leverage, and QC prime importance as a "swing province". I think that if the West ever manages to put together the same sort of regional base while managing to pick up extra seats around the country by making themselves appealing to significant numbers of Canadians outside the West that they will gain the same type of leverage that was wielded by Ontario for 11 years.

I think that if we want to do some sort of regional tempering of the power of the Commons that there are smarter ways to do it than a simple-minded equal number of Senators per province. I have proposed one system. We've seen another system (1/4 1/4 1/4 1/4) whose flaws I have pointed out (I think it overrepresents QC and the Maritimes, and will continue to get worse as their relative share of population declines). I am much more in favour of a moving quota system which would reassign more and more Senators to the West as it grows faster than Canada as a whole. I think that in order to ensure that these Senators represent their region as a whole that they be elected by proportional representation (which I am not normally in favour of, despite being a leftie). I think that this Senate should be limited in legislative scope in order to avoid the lengthy, pork-padded process I see in other countries with true bicameral legislatures.

[Starchild]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Canada gave that territory to Quebec. I think they can choose to take it away.

Didn't Quebec exist before there was a Canada?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Canada gave that territory to Quebec. I think they can choose to take it away.

Ben, you're a card.

****, instead of NEPII we'll simply take the tarsands off Alberta's hands.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Starchild


Didn't Quebec exist before there was a Canada?

Yes.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
KH, you are right. The NDP won all of 10 and 13 seats in Ontario, in 1988 and 1984. Which does what to my argument? The PCs won in Ontario, as every other governing party has done, at least as far back as Diefenbaker. The Conservatives had a huge base of support in Ontario, in 1984, they had more seats from Ontario then they had in Quebec.

Take a look at the electoral map of Ontario from those years, Ben.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Asher

The federal government should be able to force renegotiation of the price Quebec is paying for the hydro. It's patently unfair.

It was negotiated in good faith between two free parties.

Quebec didn't march its army into Nfld and grab the power, then offer a pittance to the Newfs.

[Asher]

No, but Quebec took advantage of negotiating with people they knew were mentally incapable of understanding what they were signing.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Asher
No, but Quebec took advantage of negotiating with people they knew were mentally incapable of understanding what they were signing.

Asher, you're a bad man.

[Asher]

[Kuciwalker]

[Ben Kenobi]

Didn't Quebec exist before there was a Canada?

Indeed there was. What were the borders of Quebec back then?

http://collections.ic.gc.ca/charlottetown/map/

1898

A portion of the land purchased by Canada from the Hudson Bay Company in 1868-1869 is given to Quebec by the federal government. As the accompanying map shows, the northern frontier of Quebec passes north of lake Mistassini in Quebec and reaches the mid-point approximately of James Bay.

1912

A further grant of land in the North by the federal government extends the Northern limits of Quebec all the way to Ungava Bay (its present day frontier). See accompanying map.

http://www2.marianopolis.edu/quebechistory/readings/territor.htm

I don't see Quebec ever paying for that land Canada gave them.

[Kontiki]

I think the point that KH is making in regards to "protecting" Ontario isn't that Ontario has been taking its lumps, but rather if you're going to "fix" something, do it in a manner that prevents anyone from shafting someone else. Senate reform shouldn't be an "ah ha! Now's our chance to screw Ontario and Quebec!" type situation. And if it's presented as such, guess what the response from the currently most populous area of the country is going to be?

[Asher]

How can the senate "screw" anyone, given they can't draft any legislation and all legislation still needs to pass the HoC?