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Air marshals shoot would-be bomber

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  • #151
    Originally posted by DRoseDARs
    People swear upon the Holy Bible that "explosive decompression" from weapons fire is a myth or something, but I'd rather not tempt fate and be on that one plane in the entire universe that beats the odds...
    Dude. The planes already have holes in them. Air is constantly pumped into and out of the plane. Otherwise the people on board would all die. Explosive decompression only happens with huge holes. If it were anything other than a myth, there wouldn't be armed sky marshals in the first place. It was just a movie.
    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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    • #152
      Originally posted by DinoDoc
      Dude. The planes already have holes in them. Air is constantly pumped into and out of the plane. Otherwise the people on board would all die. Explosive decompression only happens with huge holes. If it were anything other than a myth, there wouldn't be armed sky marshals in the first place. It was just a movie.
      So do submarines. The difference is that those holes are controlled, not random as a hole made by a bullet.

      Wether it will be dangerous depends on the circumstances - Flight 811 lost several sqf of it's fuselage and only nine was killed - always buckle up your seat belt
      With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

      Steven Weinberg

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      • #153
        Pressurised cabins don't have holes just anywhere, to my knowledge. It would defeat the purpose of pressurising if the air circulation wasn't only through valves/pumps designed to withstand the pressure differences..

        If you poke a hole in a window with a bullet in a pressurised cabin at altitude its going to be enough to weaken the window such that the pane falls away. It is then a big hole that can cause some serious problems.

        Basically I would think it depends on the integrity of the material that you pierce whether it will cause immediate decompression, or whether you can drop altitude to alleviate the problem before landing.
        One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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        • #154
          Originally posted by DinoDoc
          It was just a movie.

          'Goldfinger'- one of my favourite James Bond films.


          Explosive decompression and economy class all being sucked through a thimble sized hole is indeed a myth.

          I know because I have a partner who is a pilot of powered aircraft, and a friend who's a pilot of jet planes- they both crack up when people go on about being ejected through teeny exits.
          Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

          ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

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          • #155
            That's why many cops carry "drop guns," to cover their asses in case they shot someone by mistake.
            This place never ceases to amaze me.

            From what we know, good on the air marshals.

            And shooting for something other than center of mass is a bad idea, which is why law enforcement/military worldwide don't do it. If you have evaluated the situation to warrent deadly force then that is what you use. Firearms are always concidered using deadly force in the US.
            "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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            • #156
              Originally posted by Patroklos
              And shooting for something other than center of mass is a bad idea, which is why law enforcement/military worldwide don't do it. If you have evaluated the situation to warrent deadly force then that is what you use. Firearms are always concidered using deadly force in the US.
              That may be the american police doctrine, but I doubt seriously that goes in most of europe. Shooting to kill is the very last option in training - the purpose of the gun is to stop the opponent, not to kill him.

              Danish police got new wapons a couple of years ago, and one of the reasons was that the needed weapons that could stop people without killing them.

              There is only one reason to shoot to kill, and that is if someones life is in immediate danger, and that doesn't include "we suspected he was armed and dangerous"-
              With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

              Steven Weinberg

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              • #157
                Don't you aim for the centre of mass, not because you necessarily want to kill the person, but because its the largest target and so there's less chance of missing the person and because hitting an arm or leg is less likely to incapacitate which is the main objective of shooting them?
                One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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                • #158
                  I would have thought that was obvious (the main reason I was staying out of that subarguement) but you seem to be the first person to mention it.
                  I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                  For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                  • #159
                    It might have escaped them that not every law enforcement officer shoots like Josey Wales.

                    Lime roots and treachery!
                    "Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten

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                    • #160
                      No. If you aim for the center - that is breast/stomach/head area, you aim to kill, not incapacitate. A bullet in those areas would probably be incapapicating, but there is also a very high risk that it will be deadly.
                      With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                      Steven Weinberg

                      Comment

                      • #161
                        Originally posted by DinoDoc
                        I would have thought that was obvious (the main reason I was staying out of that subarguement) but you seem to be the first person to mention it.
                        Didn't refresh before answering, so I didn't see this.

                        No, that isn't in any way obvious. Handguns isn't that precise, but that is why police practice - they are supposed to hit arms and legs and thereby incapacitating targets without killing them wich is highly probable if shooting at the body.
                        With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                        Steven Weinberg

                        Comment

                        • #162
                          I would like to some back up for the claim that it is SOP in Europe if weapons are used in Europe to aim for the extremities then.
                          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                          Comment

                          • #163
                            Originally posted by DinoDoc
                            I would like to some back up for the claim that it is SOP in Europe if weapons are used in Europe to aim for the extremities then.
                            If July 22nd is anything to go by, eleven rounds aimed at the head at close range is preferable to extremities.
                            One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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                            • #164
                              Originally posted by DinoDoc
                              I would like to some back up for the claim that it is SOP in Europe if weapons are used in Europe to aim for the extremities then.
                              I would gladly give references/links if I could, but it is a very rare thing that police needs to draw their guns here, and if it happens it won't make an english spoken page. Noone cares that much if a police officer shoots someone in the leg.

                              If you want a picture of how it is here, well, a police officer was accused of attempted manslaughter because he shot at the chauffeur and hit the passanger of a car driving against a nother police.

                              The claim was dropped, it would have been rediciously not to, but police here are not allowed to kill or hurt unless it is nessecary.
                              With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                              Steven Weinberg

                              Comment

                              • #165
                                Originally posted by BlackCat
                                So do submarines. The difference is that those holes are controlled, not random as a hole made by a bullet.
                                My understanding is that sky marshalls have special guns. They'll kill you, but won't go through the fusilage (might go through a window though.
                                Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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