Air marshals shoot would-be bomber

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
It all boils down to where he was shot. If he was on the plane and the passengers couldn't hear him say it, then the marshals are full of sh*t. If he was out of earshot of the other passengers (he'd have to get down onto the tarmac, but how could he have done that without getting shot beforehand?) then I might give the marshals the benefit of the doubt.

I agree. It wouldn't make sense if the marshals were the only ones in the middle of a crowded cabin who heard him say that he had a bomb. Clearly, something is very wrong if that's the case, and I would hope that there would be disciplinary action.

As it stands, nobody seems to be clear enough on the exact chain of events to be able to say.

[DRoseDARs]

I'm trying to see if there's a coroborated version that definitively places his shooting. I'm not one to jump down on air marshals for trying to do what they're there for (though I'd rather they use ideally non-lethal, incapacitating weapons) but this has smelled from the beginning like a screw-up.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
(though I'd rather they use ideally non-lethal, incapacitating weapons)

There was a lot of discussion about this after 9/11. Perhaps they thought tasers simply weren't reliable enough? It does seem like it would be preferable to use something that doesn't neccessitate lethal force to be effective.

[DRoseDARs]

Personally, I'd rather not be on a plane with a bullet-based gun. I'll take my chances with being accidentally struck by a taser.

[Cyclotron]

Yeah, I always wondered about whether it would be dangerous to have a handgun in a pressurized cabin at Lord knows how many feet. Reminds me of that scene from "Goldfinger."

[DRoseDARs]

On the issue of where he was shot:

1) Obviously, if he was on the plane (which was pretty much boarded at this time) then people would have heard him.

2) If he was outside the plane down on the tarmac, then likely only the air marshals would have heard him (ground crew might have already cleared except for the signal guy and the truck operator).

3) If he was in the jetway, then there might have been a few last passengers or crew coming down or airport personel heading back up before the doors were closed.



I'm bieng told (1 response so far) that it was the jetway he was shot in and the plane was filled and being closed up, so it's unlikely anyone else was in the jetway with this guy and the air marshals. Still smells of ass-covering, but I may just have to conceed this one.

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
Yeah, I always wondered about whether it would be dangerous to have a handgun in a pressurized cabin at Lord knows how many feet. Reminds me of that scene from "Goldfinger."

People swear upon the Holy Bible that "explosive decompression" from weapons fire is a myth or something, but I'd rather not tempt fate and be on that one plane in the entire universe that beats the odds...

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
I'm bieng told (1 response so far) that it was the jetway he was shot in and the plane was filled and being closed up, so it's unlikely anyone else was in the jetway with this guy and the air marshals. Still smells of ass-covering, but I may just have to conceed this one.

Indeed. I'm also unclear as to exactly when he said he had a bomb in relation to the shooting; if the marshals say he shouted it while on the plane, then ran out to the jeetway, and was then shot, there would be a problem -so potentially there is more to this than just where he was shot.

[DRoseDARs]

Well, for now I'm going to have to let this rest. Perhaps a clearer picture will be painted in coming days. It's sad any way you look at it.

[DRoseDARs]

And the : crook : smiley having a santa hat is just wrong in this context.

[Cyclotron]

I suppose you could use

And yes - it's always unfortunate when an innocent person dies. I hope this case is wrapped up in good time so we can establish whether it was an honest mistake or not.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
How does that change the fact that the marshals thought he did?

Actually, they only claim they thought he did. There is a difference. We don't know what they actually thought, and given the disparity between what they originally releasedto the public and the subsequent facts coming out, I'm not inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Kuciwalker]

The real question is why the **** would they shoot him if they didn't think so?

[chequita guevara]

Cops have often shot people for no good reason. Then, after the fact, they claim the person was threatening them, when generally it was because the person didn't give the cops proper respect and obey orders. That's why many cops carry "drop guns," to cover their asses in case they shot someone by mistake.

I ain't sayin' that's what happened here, but some stressed out marshalls confronted with a whacked passanger who refuses to obey orders might have caused them to get riled and shoot.

[BlackCat]

He acted strange, didn't follow orders - they shoot. Afterwards they find out that he's not dangerous and they know there will be tough questions - voila - the bomb threat and all is good.