Federalization of Abortion

[Whoha]

that would be the worst case unless the pro abortion side got so small that an amendment to the consitution banning abortion were ratified.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
No they aren't. One state is not obligated to recognise the marriage definition changes of another state. The same with the abortion laws.

You're entirely correct. The state has no obligation to recognize abortions performed in another state...

The big question is if a state has the responsibility to protect the unborn child, how does the state protect that child from mothers who go to another state to have an abortion?

not allow pregnant women to cross state lines?

The answer is they don't. Sucks to be them.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Whoha
that would be the worst case unless the pro abortion side got so small that an amendment to the consitution banning abortion were ratified.

Given that 70% of the population believes that abortion should be legal in some form, not gonna happen.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Given that 70% of the population believes that abortion should be legal in some form, not gonna happen.

Er, that's the hitch-"in some form." The last survey I saw said a lot of those "in some forms" amounted to "to save the life of the mother" and "fatal defects in the fetus." The remaining <30% were the nuts who expected a woman to die before aborting.

But the two circumstances enumerated are not especially common afaik, and seem like perfectly sensible exceptions; I for one would be willing to allow those two. I'd fight against making women kill themselves for their children. This is just from memory, of course, but people who support things exactly as they are now are around what, thirty percent in your average poll? If you tack on rape-and-incest and maternal health complications as provisos, it can't be far from fifty-fifty.

EDIT: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/27/abo...oll/index.html

I thought I remembered reading this...thirty-seven percent want exceptions only for the mother's life, sixteen want it entirely illegal. Assuming I read it correctly, that's 53% for banning abortion in most cases. I don't know how reliable the poll is though.

[Ben Kenobi]

And if a state makes abortion (either providing or obtaining) a crime, isn't there also an exception to FFC for penal laws?

Generally they would charge the woman in order to secure testimony towards the arrest of the doctors. So that would only affect the doctors.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Elok
Er, that's the hitch-"in some form." The last survey I saw said a lot of those "in some forms" amounted to "to save the life of the mother" and "fatal defects in the fetus." The remaining <30% were the nuts who expected a woman to die before aborting.

I know, that's why I added the qualifier. However, it's not that important in this case because we're talking about an amendment to ban abortion period - a ban with a health except could probably be worked around easily, or at least would have trouble getting support from its base.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Generally they would charge the woman in order to secure testimony towards the arrest of the doctors. So that would only affect the doctors.

You think a state could arrest the citizens and residents of another state for this?

[Ben Kenobi]

Health exception is a smoke screen. They usually define health so broadly that it is the same as unrestricted abortion. Better to have a law only allowing abortion in the case where the mother will die without one.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I know, that's why I added the qualifier. However, it's not that important in this case because we're talking about an amendment to ban abortion period - a ban with a health except could probably be worked around easily, or at least would have trouble getting support from its base.

I didn't say "health exception." As BK notes, Roe v. Wade managed to define "health" so loosely as to render the term meaningless. Life of the mother is pretty explicit and well supported among pro-lifers. It's also an increasingly rare circumstance as medical technology improves. Fatal defects there'd have to be some discussion about, but it'd be a lot easier than rape-and-incest or socioeconomic factors or what-have-you. I could see it happening. And in case you haven't noticed, pro-lifers will take what they can get a surprising amount of the time.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Health exception is a smoke screen. They usually define health so broadly that it is the same as unrestricted abortion. Better to have a law only allowing abortion in the case where the mother will die without one.

"Better" from your perspective

I didn't say "health exception." As BK notes, Roe v. Wade managed to define "health" so loosely as to render the term meaningless. Life of the mother is pretty explicit and well supported among pro-lifers. It's also an increasingly rare circumstance as medical technology improves. Fatal defects there'd have to be some discussion about, but it'd be a lot easier than rape-and-incest or socioeconomic factors or what-have-you. I could see it happening. And in case you haven't noticed, pro-lifers will take what they can get a surprising amount of the time.

But any such exception is an explicit constitutional right to abortion in a particular case, which that - very vocal and rabid - 30% of the population couldn't stand.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Generally they would charge the woman in order to secure testimony towards the arrest of the doctors. So that would only affect the doctors.

What the hell are you talking about?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Vesayen
You COULD argue this:

If abortion is banned in a state any woman wishing to have an abortion in that state automatically proves themself an unfit parent and the fetus should become an automatic ward of the state.

If she goes into another state it does not matter *WHERE* she commited the crime, only that she commited the crime, murdering a citizen of X state, and a ward of the state..

No you couldn't.

A state's law does not apply to another state AFAIK. As the woman has committed no crime in the state where abortion is legal, nothing can be done about it.

Edit: ugh, that dreadful KH beat me to it

[KrazyHorse]

Only by a day or so. Replying before you read the whole thread?