Clemency for Tookie?

[Odin]

Originally posted by SpencerH

and to assuage our desire for revenge

Revenge has no place in a modern civilized society.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by MrFun
The death penalty is not an effective deterrent -- United States has a much higher murder rate than other Western nations that do not have the death penalty.

If the death penalty was an effective deterrent, wouldn't it be the other way around?

If there weren't innumerable other independent variables at work, yes.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Odin





Revenge has no place in a modern civilized society.

Would you care to give a reason for your opinion?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


If there weren't innumerable other independent variables at work, yes.

So then explain to me why United States has a disproportanately higher rate of murder crimes compared to other Western nations.

[Drake Tungsten]

Mexicans...

[Odin]

Originally posted by SpencerH


Would you care to give a reason for your opinion?

I am a Utillitarian, the DP does not prevent crime (and therefore does not decrease overall unhappiness) more than life in prison does, thus you are giving out more suffering than is needed as a deterence, and at more cost, thant a inmate would have with life in prision. To consider the PD moral, one must agree with the Kantian view of Justice and it's emphasis on retribution, which I think is BS.

[Pekka]

IF I was supporter of DP, I would support it only inside prisons. To use as deterrent for everyone, if you kill someone inside prison, then DP would be option. But only in prison. Because lifers don't have much deterrent, so they could just be easily turned into murders, if they are not afraid of the isolation thing.

But that's only if I supported DP.

[Odin]

Originally posted by MrFun



So then explain to me why United States has a disproportanately higher rate of murder crimes compared to other Western nations.

This is easy, we have a more violent culture than in Western Europe, and more economic inequality, hence, more crime.

[Berzerker]

It won't bother me if this guy gets put to death, assuming that he isn't found to have been innocent afterwards.

It really bothers me knowing innocent people were executed, far more than knowing a murderer got life instead of death.

So then explain to me why United States has a disproportanately higher rate of murder crimes compared to other Western nations.

Our drug war is much more violent, combined with a heavily armed population and a rebellious nature toward government instrusiveness makes for more people getting killed.

[MrFun]

Thanks Odin and Berz -- do you have links to reinforce your claims?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by MrFun
So then explain to me why United States has a disproportanately higher rate of murder crimes compared to other Western nations.

I'm not a sociologist. The mere fact that you can't control for any of the other factors renders any comparison worthless.

[Berzerker]

Thanks Odin and Berz -- do you have links to reinforce your claims?

I used to before my comp broke, but if you can find a graph of homicide rates for the 20th century you'll see the rate ~doubles during alcohol/drug wars. Since we are the primary western market for many drugs, our black market is larger and more violent.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


I'm not a sociologist. The mere fact that you can't control for any of the other factors renders any comparison worthless.

I smell bull****.


ALL other Western countries seem to have a common pattern of relatively low rate of murder crimes. The United States, for probably several interrelated reasons, as Odin and Berz hinted at, makes our country an anamoly compared to the overall general pattern of Western nations.


I would like to find out more about this anamoly.

[Drake Tungsten]

I would like to find out more about this anamoly.

Make it so!

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Berzerker

It really bothers me knowing innocent people were executed, far more than knowing a murderer got life instead of death.

Way to quote me out of context in order to make the same point I already made. Get your own point.