Canadian government to fall

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


It says total public debt, making no difference between federal and the states.

"Public Debt" in US economics-speak means the debt of the US federal government.

[DaShi]

Well, I have to give Canada some kudos. I didn't expect it to last as long as it did.

[Asher]

The best thing about minority governments is the government tends to do less. And the less government tends to do, the less they tend to screw it up.

[Colon™]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


"Public Debt" in US economics-speak means the debt of the US federal government.

And then you also have to consider the difference between public debt (debt owed by public organs), and publicly held debt. Chunks of that public debt are held by other public organs so that the actual amount the public sector owes to private actors is a smaller.

[Kontiki]

Total federal, provincial and municipal debt for Canada:

approx. C$805.6 billion

http://www.ndir.com/SI/education/debt.shtml

for the US:

approx. $9.3 trillion.

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/debt-summary-table.htm

Let's do that math again:
per capita Canada - $805.6 billion/31 million = $25,987
per capita US - $9.3 trillion/300 million = $31,000

So, a little over 19% more per capita debt in the US. Now let's revisit that claim again:

A debt proportionally lower then our own. We have high taxes and a higher debt.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Yes by defining a family to mean anything you want. This isn't a conservative view but a liberal view, no different from Asher or the rest of the liberal folks here. They would argue precisely as you do that unless we define a family to mean whatever people want to be considered a family, this will weaken the bond within a family.

So only religious nuts can define Family Values? Nice logic.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Colon
And then you also have to consider the difference between public debt (debt owed by public organs), and publicly held debt. Chunks of that public debt are held by other public organs so that the actual amount the public sector owes to private actors is a smaller.

AIUI Social Security owns a lot of T-bills.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Agathon


The old style PC party has a lot more in common with the liberals than the current CCP. Canada is a liberal country overall. If you don't take account of that political reality, you cannot win... period.



Who completely failed. That particular style of government was tried in the US, Canada, Britain and New Zealand. It completely failed to lower government spending. It's yesterday's politics.



No it doesn't indicate that at all. Conservatives simply do not understand why we have taxation. Canada is currently fourth or fifth on the UNHDI: that's a great acheivement for a country that is not particularly populous and which is not particularly rich in natural resources (compared to others).

The reason is that Canada is an extremely efficient society: far more efficient than the US (people who don't understand this do not understand efficiency). Canadians have no objections to allowing the government to provide certain services if it is cheaper, whereas their American counterparts do. This is why Canada can make so much more out of so less - because collective spending can in many cases lead to efficiency gains. Any decent economist agrees with me on this.

It's simply an open question whether the surpluses should be spent on debt reduction, public services or tax cuts. I can think of a couple of things (health care and public transport) that would do a lot more to improve the life of the average Canadian than increased consumer spending.



Because this is an inaccurate representation of the situation. "tax and spend"" just means that we pay for certain services through the government and not through the market. The reason we do this is because it is more efficient. Health care is the best example.

Conservatives never really say what they mean. What they want to do is remove certain goods from the public sphere to the private sphere. Sure, everyone will get some money back if this is done. The problem is that it will cost at least 85% of Canadians more to get equivalent services through the private market.

As for the military: there is no need to spend a lot of money on it. Canada has no enemies. All it needs is a force sufficient to contribute to multilateral interventions like peacekeeping. Perhaps an increase in spending is required for that, but to say that it is needed for national defence is just ridiculous. Canada has no enemies. It's like New Zealand: no one wants to attack it, and even if they did, they are not in a position to do so. There is no reason to think that this is going to change such that increased spending is required right now.



The problem is that Canadians are a liberal people. I've never lived in a country where the national character was such a political issue. Most Canadians would rather have the Liberals, who have run a pretty good government, than just change and watch the socially liberal ideas the country is based on collapse. There's a reason that Trudeau is so revered: he set down what it means to be Canadian for the majority of Canadians. It took me about a month of living here to realize that. It still hasn't dawned on people out west.



They are.

And the "squandering" is not particularly bad. Canada has an excellent government and has had so for the past 10 years. Go live in Britain during Thatcher's reign and you will understand what a bad government is like.

Things are pretty good in Canada right now. Why would anyone want to change?

It is difficult to determine where to begin with this... mess.

Perhaps it would be better to proceed to the end and remind Aggie about the bit along the lines of it being better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are ignorant than to open it and remove all doubt.

[Richelieu]

Originally posted by notyoueither


It is difficult to determine where to begin with this... mess.

Perhaps it would be better to proceed to the end and remind Aggie about the bit along the lines of it being better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are ignorant than to open it and remove all doubt.

edit: wholeheartedly

[Max Webster]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
The US is a sovereign country, as is Canada. As such, the two are connected, with regards to this election, only as much as the fantasies of some will allow.

If you are still afraid that Canada is turning into the United States, then keep on voting Liberal. I don't know what else to tell you.

If the US had anything to do with Canadian elections, then why do we get liberal partys who usually don't agree with your republican party's. Your country might influence our goverments decision making but I doubt if the US messes with the elections. But I never really siad the US messes with elections. I just siad I don't want our country to go as far right as your country.
Canada will never be like the US, anybody thats travelled between the two countries can see lots of differences. I don't think I really need to vote liberal in the hope that we stay different than the US. Even our right wingers look upon the US right wingers with some trepidation.

[Max Webster]

Originally posted by notyoueither
It is difficult to determine where to begin with this... mess.

Easy start with first paragraph and work down. Actually I think he makes alot great points. But I would love to hear somebody pick it apart

[Max Webster]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
So you're like a dwarf with a nine foot long dick?

Better that then a blundering elephant with a one inch dick and no brain.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Max Webster

Easy start with first paragraph and work down. Actually I think he makes alot great points. But I would love to hear somebody pick it apart

Here are the highlights, off the cuff...

Canada 'is not particularly rich in natural resources (compared to others).'

Huh? We export more food, minerals, lumber, electricity, and petrochemicals than we import, by far. At the same time, we are one of the major industrialised economies in the world (meaning we consume a lot of those resources as well). We have more oil than Saudi Arabia FFS, how could anyone other than a dolt say that we are anything other than filthy stinkin' rich (compared to others)?

There's a reason that Trudeau is so revered: he set down what it means to be Canadian for the majority of Canadians.

Canadians should be glad to have it explained to us that leaders from MacDonald through Pearson, and Canadians in general, were lambs wandering the wilderness until PET gave us the scent of our nation.

Bwahahahahaha!

And the "squandering" is not particularly bad. Canada has an excellent government and has had so for the past 10 years. Go live in Britain during Thatcher's reign and you will understand what a bad government is like.

Now, I'm all for the integration of the mentally handicapped into jobs and functions that can lead to them having more fulfilling lives, but surely we should require that they be more than deaf, dumb, and blind when they claim to have listened to us after having landed at the UofT some few number of years ago, proposing to speak for us from a coffee counter in Toronto (not having worked up the nerve to venture forth into those lands where heathens reside; AKA outside of the GTA) and refusing to see the implications of a federal government putting out contracts that result in millions being kicked back to the ruling party. Did I mention that not a single officer of said party is under indictment as of yet? Why do you suppose that is?

I'm not going to get into defence, healthcare, taxation, and the other areas of our national government that the writer demonstrates a profound ignorance of. They would be boring. I'll leave it at the highlighted howlers, for now.

[Asher]

The canadian health care system needs huge overhauls

I just spent 6 and a half hours waiting with my dad at the hospital to see a doctor. And they told us we're lucky it wasn't a busy night. He had surgery on his hernia this morning, and at 8pm tonight he slumped over, had a seizure, and then fainted. Scared the **** out of me.

[Krill]

I just spent 6 and a half hours waiting with my dad at the hospital to see a doctor. And they told us we're lucky it wasn't a busy night. He had surgery on his hernia this morning, and at 8pm tonight he slumped over, had a seizure, and then fainted. Scared the **** out of me.

That is better than the British NHS...