Business in China

[Kontiki]

Interesting cross-post with Mao.

[Kontiki]

Wow, DaShi, you sure put me in my place and really seem reasonable. Way to not overreact, or read what I post.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Everyone knows that a great many of China's local politicians and policemen are corrupt and that the legal system can be very arbitrary. That's part of doing business there. Most companies want the profits cheap Chinese labor can bring them so they're willing to risk it though in the future I imagine more people will turn to Indian labor since India has a strong legal tradition which is based upon English common law. I guess it will just depend how abusive the Chinese get and if the national government cracks down upon the worst offenders or not.

the flip side of that is that they want to be able to skirt the law.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Kontiki
Not at all. It just seems to be a pattern with you. I have nothing against you personally, I certainly don't side with UR, Tingkai or whomever else is on your **** list and I don't doubt the validity of what you post (nor, really, would I be likely to verify it). Just pointing out as a disinterested observer what it looks like.

It looks like that because for some reason I have to justify every single post I make about China. I can't have a reasonable discussion about it. Never happens. Not since the first time I posted a thread about China. This always comes up, and it is always wrong.

So please tell me the pattern that you see. Is it that I post threads that criticize China? If that's it, then look at my prior post to you. Is it because I must constantly defend my right to make such threads at the risk of being called a racist or China-hater? If so, where is the evidence for those accusations?

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Kontiki
Wow, DaShi, you sure put me in my place and really seem reasonable. Way to not overreact, or read what I post.

Didn't read it at the time. If you had read my posts, you'd have seen how sick I am of this bull****.

Here's the question that no one has answered:

Why do I have to justify every thread I post that paints China in a slightly negative light or risk being called a racist or China-hater?


Why is China off-limits for discussion? I've not had one thread that criticizes China that hasn't descended into this. Not one.

[Sava]

I just want to comment on this "Chinese people not being seen as American stuff"...


My best friend since like 7th grade is of Chinese descent. He was born in America, but his parents are originally from Hong Kong. His family, parents and two siblings, are all American citizens. I think of them, well, basically as they are... his parents are immigrants from Hong Kong, and the children are Americans, of Chinese descent.

America is a nation of immigrants. Whether you are originally from England or Ireland or Serbia or China or Macedonia or Germany or France... eventually, if you become a citizen... you become American...

American is not really an ethnicity. It is a nationality. Anyone can become American.

I had some of my own problems fitting in when I was growing up because of my name being different. It was like, I wasn't quite Serbian, I wasn't quite "American" enough for the rest of the kids. But then I realized, the people that didn't accept me were just ignorant morons. And I said, "Screw them." Eventually, I found a lot of friends that didn't care what my name was and people accepted me for who I was.

My point is, there are ignorant morons out there. But there are also good people out there. And this stuff about "Americans won't accept people of Chinese descent" is just silly. That is a stupid generalization.

People like myself don't care what your skin color or ethnicity is. If you come to this country and become a citizen, then IMO, you are an American, no matter where you are from or what your accent is. And quite frankly, if you stereotype all Americans by saying "Americans won't accept people of XXXX descent" then you are being just as ignorant as the people out there who you are describing.

[DaShi]

I missed your pro-girl thingy, but how are the interviews "positive"? They're nice and fun, but positive or negative?

Why do they have to be positive or negative? Why am I solely responsible for this?

It must also be very nice to have such moral righteousness behind you... Maybe that everyone thinks that you're so negative about China means something...wouldn't it be more useful if you could at least appear unbiased so then more people would listen? I mean, it appears that lots of people just assume you're a China-basher, and treat you as such. Woudln't it be a lot more effective to be seen as a neutral observer? Since spreading information is so useful and all, we wouldn't want to put it to deaf ears now, would we?

Where do I bash China?

I don't complain that it's been presented without a solution. I complain that you have a problem, great, now what're you going to do about it? It doesn't take a genius to point out everything wrong with the world, but there are those select few who actually try to find solutions that will make a difference. Maybe you're among them, maybe I am, maybe neither of us are. On the one hand you ask for discussion, yet on the other you say it doesn't matter...so what's the point? To BS around? Great...weeeeeee

Want a response like I gave Kontiki?

Praytell, let us be useful then. Now what should we learn from this? What is the lesson that foreign companies should take it? What about the Chinese or American govenrment? Let's discuss then.

Well, I'm tired and *****y so I'll make it short.

Lesson for foreign companies= Realize that business in China is a whole new kind of animal. You can never be too prepared. There's good opportunities there, but it's not a simple cashcow. The Chinese are businessmen too.

Chinese government= man you guys got a lot of work to do. Personally torn between a dislike for your style but a hope that you can pull it all together in the end.

American government= where are you on this?

[Mao]

Quick reply before bed to Sava:

I'm not sure who that post was directed to, but I took great pains in my post to not generalize and say "Americans do this x, y, z" or that "All Americans are a, b, and c." I specifically didn't do that.

And that's a very good progressive attitute Sava, I wish more people had it. *sigh* The sad part is that many people, too many, don't have that attitude.

[DaShi]

I think I fall on Kuci's end when growing up. Very few minorities in my schools. We were all against racism, but we really didn't know what real racism was. In college one of my best friends was Korean-American, but I never thought of him as Korean at all. He was just the same as me. My mother came from Hungary, his from S. Korea. But we were both Americans.

Now my other best friend was Jewish. But he countered those jokes with some good Catholic ones.

[Bosh]

Dashi: everything I've ever seen you post sounds pretty reasonable. This sort of thing reminds me of the "whiner" vs. "apologist" flame wars on the korea ex-pat board that I used to frequent. The arguements that you get into on 'poly seem to replicate those almost exactly (just much smaller scale). Personally, I love Korea but I had my share of idiots flaming me for being occasionally critical and I did my share of flaming of the more ignorant "whiners."

Overall, your emphasis on China seems to be overwhelmingly negative, but the way you do it is always rational and very straight forward and very free of the BS rhetorical games that certain other posters are wont to use and from everything I've seen pretty much every single thing that annoys me in Korea exists in a more concentrated form in China, I'm more or less on your side for whatever that's worth

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by DaShi


Didn't read it at the time. If you had read my posts, you'd have seen how sick I am of this bull****.

Here's the question that no one has answered:

Why do I have to justify every thread I post that paints China in a slightly negative light or risk being called a racist or China-hater?


Why is China off-limits for discussion? I've not had one thread that criticizes China that hasn't descended into this. Not one.

I don't think China's off limits for discussion at all - can't speak for anyone else. The pattern, though, is that you seem to create a dispropotionate number of theads that point out what I'm sure are perfectly legitimate failings of China - certainly more so than any other poster I can think of. I'm sure you could be a complete ass like you were before and link to a thread or two that someone else started on China, though. Feel free if that gives you some sort of satisfaction.

I would think that if I created numerous threads about terrible things that, say, the Burmese society and/or government does, people might start to wonder if I was on a crusade against them. And it would probably seem even more odd if I was a Westerner voluntarily living there teaching English.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Own goal.

Thanks for playing.

No, it's precise. Chinese is an ethnicity as well as a nationality, and there are in fact quite a few Chinese citizens, non-naturalized residents, as well naturalized American citizens at my school. Hell, my girlfriend is second-generation naturalized citizen (her parents brought her here from China when she was nine months old), and she's just as American as anyone else, apart from a slight accent.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Mao


Heh, I'm going through this and don't even care that much. This also isn't the first time you've heard the term "banana" or "Twinkie" is it? I think those terms are actually an import from the US. Besides, many Americans also will never see a Chinese person (whether he just got off the plane or is 8th generation) as being American. That problem is very widespread in the US too, how do we solve it there? Since we're such a freer society and such, it should be easier, right? Yet it's been 100+ years since large waves of Asian immigration, but people still come to me in the US and ask:
"So, where are you from?"

"[insert any other American city here]"

"No, really, where are you from?"

*angry look*

So? I get "what kind of a name is _____"

Id be inclined to say "its been an American name for over a hundred years now, you bigot" but usually im polite and just tell them its of Yiddish origin, since thats really what they want to know (that Im Jewish)

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by DaShi
I think I fall on Kuci's end when growing up. Very few minorities in my schools. We were all against racism, but we really didn't know what real racism was. In college one of my best friends was Korean-American, but I never thought of him as Korean at all. He was just the same as me. My mother came from Hungary, his from S. Korea. But we were both Americans.

There are plenty of minorities at my school; they're just all Indian, Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, and Japanese - altogether they make up 27% of the school (the statistics generally don't track anything more specific than "Asian"). Not very many blacks or Hispanics.

Now my other best friend was Jewish. But he countered those jokes with some good Catholic ones.

We're also very disproportionately Jewish and a bit disproportionately Catholic, from my own observation.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kontiki
I don't think China's off limits for discussion at all - can't speak for anyone else. The pattern, though, is that you seem to create a dispropotionate number of theads that point out what I'm sure are perfectly legitimate failings of China - certainly more so than any other poster I can think of. I'm sure you could be a complete ass like you were before and link to a thread or two that someone else started on China, though. Feel free if that gives you some sort of satisfaction.

I would think that if I created numerous threads about terrible things that, say, the Burmese society and/or government does, people might start to wonder if I was on a crusade against them. And it would probably seem even more odd if I was a Westerner voluntarily living there teaching English.

No, it would make sense. DaShi lives in China, so of course Chinese issues are of more interest to him.