Bush Administration wants an exception for CIA to commit torture

[Berzerker]

Then outing a few more shouldn't be a big deal?

[Berzerker]

We should just have one party, that usually works out well.

Then you won't have to worry about accountability at all.

The Communist Party?

[Drake Tungsten]

Then outing a few more shouldn't be a big deal?

I already said that I think the positive effects of leaks usually outweigh the negatives.

Another person's take...

All worthwhile information in Washington is "classified" one way or another. We have good reason to be grateful to various officials and reporters who have, in our past, decided that disclosure was in the public interest. None of the major criticisms of the Bush administration would have become available if it were not for the willingness of many former or serving bureaucrats to "go public." But this widely understood right--now presumably in some jeopardy--makes no sense if supporters of the administration are not permitted to reply in kind.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007479

[Berzerker]

But they weren't outing Plame to save us from some evil on her part, they outed her to defend entering a war based on manipulated evidence. That is not only illogical, its ironic that defenders of the leak cite other leaks exposing corruption as a defense.

[Alexander's Horse]

I wish someone would out me.

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
I wish someone would out me.

Hey everybody! Alexander's Horse is really a closeted homosexual.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Berzerker
But they weren't outing Plame to save us from some evil on her part, they outed her to defend entering a war based on manipulated evidence. That is not only illogical, its ironic that defenders of the leak cite other leaks exposing corruption as a defense.

Have they yet determinined who the ultimate source of the leak is? Word has it Wilson himself was gossiping in the Fox News green room circa 2002 prior to this whole affair that his wife was a CIA employee. Witnesses recalling these claims include now: Maj. General Vallely (initially reported), Lt. General Tom McInerney, and Victor David Hanson.

Immediately upon word of Vallely's recounting of his memories Wilson and his legal counsel took immediate action. Since that time however corroborating witnesses above recall likewise if not identical situations. Knowing Wilson's questionable history of telling the truth and a number of corroborating witnesses I think it a reasonable suspicion to consider Wilson himself for the 'crime' (if one was committed) of leaking classified info into the general public space.

[Alexander's Horse]

you'll never get to the bottom of it

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I'm sorry, but I just don't find Plame's outing to be that important, especially when compared to other CIA secrets that have been outed recently. I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Its impossible for us to know how serious it is, and we'll probably never know the real truth. The idea that senior government officials would knowingly reveal that Plame works for the CIA just for some minor political gain is absolutely outrageous. I see it as a form of treason. I hope Libby gets the max penalty and that anyone else involved is fully prosecuted.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Have they yet determinined who the ultimate source of the leak is? Word has it Wilson himself was gossiping in the Fox News green room circa 2002 prior to this whole affair that his wife was a CIA employee. Witnesses recalling these claims include now: Maj. General Vallely (initially reported), Lt. General Tom McInerney, and Victor David Hanson.

Immediately upon word of Vallely's recounting of his memories Wilson and his legal counsel took immediate action. Since that time however corroborating witnesses above recall likewise if not identical situations. Knowing Wilson's questionable history of telling the truth and a number of corroborating witnesses I think it a reasonable suspicion to consider Wilson himself for the 'crime' (if one was committed) of leaking classified info into the general public space.

IMO, Wilsons hypocrisy is self evident. His gossip is not quite the same seriousness as a government official puposefully outing her to the press though. I'm willing to bet that her close friends knew she worked for the CIA or wondered about it (even if they denied it). Covers deteriorate over the time span she has worked since you cant help but let a few things slip.

[Drake Tungsten]

There's no proof that Libby or anyone else knowingly outed Plame. He's charged with perjury and should be punished for that if it's proven, but neither he nor anyone else has been charged with a crime relating to the actual revelation of what Plame did for a living. I find it difficult to be outraged about that, especially given the context in which it occured (ongoing war between the CIA and White House) and the regularity with which classified material is leaked in Washington.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
I wish someone would out me.

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
Hey everybody! Alexander's Horse is really a closeted homosexual.

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
you'll never get to the bottom of it

Freudian slip?

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
There's no proof that Libby or anyone else knowingly outed Plame. He's charged with perjury and should be punished for that if it's proven, but neither he nor anyone else has been charged with a crime relating to the actual revelation of what Plame did for a living. I find it difficult to be outraged about that, especially given the context in which it occured (ongoing war between the CIA and White House) and the regularity with which classified material is leaked in Washington.

Context be damned.

Libby (and maybe others) either knowingly outed her or they were incompetant. Either way they should not be in the government and yes maybe they need to be scapegoats despite that we may not know their 'state of mind' at the time of the leak. Anyone who works for or around intel knows the written and unwritten rules (which, as I said previously makes me suspect the motives of the former CIA 'agents' with blogs (of all things) and who confirmed to the public that she was probably A NOC in her early tenure at the agency).

[Drake Tungsten]

Context be damned.

I guess this is where we part company.

I do want to make it clear that I don't think outing Plame (if anyone even did that) was the right thing to do. I'm just saying that, given the context, it wasn't a shocking, uncommon or particularly important turn of events.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by SpencerH


IMO, Wilsons hypocrisy is self evident. His gossip is not quite the same seriousness as a government official puposefully outing her to the press though. I'm willing to bet that her close friends knew she worked for the CIA or wondered about it (even if they denied it). Covers deteriorate over the time span she has worked since you cant help but let a few things slip.

Point being these gossip sessions were in the proximity of a major media's own green room. If indeed true, it is not so far a stretch to consider similar boast sessions happening in other media outlets or in fact to other media reporters at some point in the past, thus substantiating the claim from admin officials that it was fairly common knowledge in the media circles and they( the WH) in fact did not leak but instead affirmed what was already known/rumored.