Poland has voted

[Atahualpa]

Originally posted by Ecthy
Because they don't want it.

That's not true. There are homosexual couples with desire for children as well. And we've advanced so far that it's possible to have children even without intercourse.

As long as there are men and women, there will be humans born, no matter their sexual orientation.

[Heresson]

I've been thinking about a thread about polish politics, but will say what I have to say here.
In 1993, ex-communists won the lctions and gouverned till 1997. They ruled well, the economy was blooming and stuff. In 1997, they got almost half more votes in last elections (despite wild attacks on them b y right-wingers, including falsely accusing very popular until then prime minister of being a Russian spy), but lost to a coalition of many right-winged parties united in hatred against them. As Kaczynski himself (I don't remmber which one, though; they are twins) described them: party of "TKM", "Teraz, kurwa, my"; "now it's our turn, dammit" (a very mild translation". The economy cooled, their rules were inefficient and corrupted. In result, ex-communists swallowed the smaller left-winged party and won the next election gathering 40% votes (their support reached 50% at some time). The right-wing coalition and liberals spawned several smaller parties, including
LPR - "A league of polish families" - a scary right-winged-clerical-nationalistic party
PiS - "Law and Justice"
PO - "Civic Platform".
Still, ex-communists (SLD) had steady support until "Rywin's affair". Lew Rywin is a reknown person in film industry. Anyway, all of the sudden the biggest newspaper in Poland, a liberal one, announced that a half year before mr Rywin came to demand money for benevolence of "a group holding power". A parliamentary comission was created to investigate this matter. Unfortunatelly, the comission session's were on the air. In result, the comission turned into a theatre of right-winged and liberal politicians attacking SLD. I thought it was bad, until the next comissions. The most biased people became the members, and it wwas really bad. SLD was in constant defensive against right-wingers, liberals and left-winged populists of "Self-defence" party, as new affairs came out. Well, "Self-defence" is made of criminals mostly, and its leaders boasts he has 150 ongoing trials, but people do not expect much of them. Liberals had their affairs too, but...
SLD was so dumb to, under accusations of being supported by state TV, give up the reins of TV to right-wings. Private tv channels are liberal/right winged as well. Also, SLD agreed to resign of majority in parliamentary comissions, which ment that most ridiculous small extrem right-winged parties will have as much to say there as them. Anyway, it looked for example like that: a reknown liberal politician made her son the first on parliamentary election list in her district, gave work to him and stuff. TVs were praising her for resigning after she was criticised. But she didn't resign because she felt sorry! She openly said that she resigns because she's angry with the others of leadership of her party that she's done sth wrong. If it was a left-winged politician, it'd have been a great affair. But she was liberal - so she was praised and the leadership of the party was praised.
It's hard to describe how one of the parliamentary comission looked. I may do it, so You could laugh, but it's more scary. What's important is that they started hunting for extremly popular left-winged president and other left winged politicians, esp. if they had a chance in presidential elections, like the wife of the ex-president or marshall of the parliament. It was disgusting. But it worked, that's the most sad part. But I will describe what they've done to the mentioned ex-marshall of parliament, ex-prime minister etc, one of my favourite politicians (who makes mistakes, though).
The comission tried to drown him in accusations before, but it only succeeded with help of a woman. Though it had nothing in comon with its work, the comission started searching the declarations of possesions of his. And they've found a mistake: he had sold actions at the beginning of january, and didn't include them in that year's declaration. Nothing really important, a third of parliamentarists made some mistakes in their declarations, including some of the members of the comission and the leaders of their parties. However, all of the sudden the liberal representative, an officier of secret services, announced that he has a proof that it was not a mistake. It was brought by ex-assistant of mr Cimoszewicz (the ex-pm, ex-marshall of the parliament, misnistry of foreign affair and at that time the most popular candidate to the president's office). It soon turned out that the document she brought was falsified by means of the sign she's once stolen, unlike her letter in which she demanded from Cimoszewicz to give her husband, working in secret services as well, some office in embassy in Italy. Cimoszewicz did not do it, and she was heard saying that she'll take her revenge for that.
Also, soon it turned out that the one who discovered her was another secret service officier and liberal politician in one person... and sevral other matters. But until then, speculations and accusations emerged, and I assure You TV was not very objective. When Cimoszewicz was accused of having a romance with this woman, he got angry and called the newsreporter a pig, which did not help him as well. Eventually, he resigned, and so Tusk and Kaczynski remained at the field.
I'll have to add that meanwhile, SLD splitted: almost entire old guard created a new party, not very successful. Also, there's old liberal (more reasonable; not successful) and new liberal (more right-winged; it's the one I'm always talking about here) party.

Why did Kaczynski win over Tusk? Thanks to support from mentioned right-winged populist Lepper, and thanks to dirty campaign. Not that Tusk played himself fair with Cimoszewicz. You see, Tusk's grandpa, a Pole and Kaszub, was a citizen of Free City Gdansk/Danzig and as such, was forced into Wermacht during the war. It was revealed (I'm not sure by who, but it seems that by Kaczynskis) shortly before the elections and surely influenced them.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Atahualpa


That's not true. There are homosexual couples with desire for children as well. And we've advanced so far that it's possible to have children even without intercourse.

As long as there are men and women, there will be humans born, no matter their sexual orientation.

But it's damn harder in many ways, artificial and rare.

[C0ckney]

ever heard of paragraphs heresson…?

[Harovan]

A question for you, Heresson... (hope they let you use the internet more than once per week in Syria)

I can halfway understand the Polish stance against that "Center for Expulsions" in Berlin, about which plans seem to exist, even though it is not seen as a big deal here and revanchists for sure don't stand a chance to have more than marginal support. And certainly that imaginary center, once built (if ever), will be devoted to historial studies and won't be authorized to state territorial claims (that seems to be what all the hystery in Poland is about). But as I said, I can halfway understand that there are issues, but...

...what for Christs sake is wrong with a gas pipeline from Russia to Germany through the Baltic Sea? Why is that perceived as so much of a threat to Poland, that it is worth to break political china by comparing it to the Hitler-Stalin-pact, and that it'll be one of the main subject of your new president's upcoming visit in Washington? I mean, it's only a ****ing gas pipeline, it's a matter purely of Russia and Germany, it's not that it would steal anything from Poland. Why that whole hystery about it?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
How would you classify the Russian-German project of a gas pipeline through the baltic sea being called an incarnation of the Hitler-Stalin pact, as done by Lech Kaczynski, the raving lunatic?

Let me guess something like this:

[Serb]

- You know, Poles are pretty unhappy that we didn't ask their permission to build a pipeline at bottom of the Baltic sea. They think we are evildoers.

- Who?

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Serb
Let me guess something like this:

Гитлер капут!

[Serb]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph

...what for Christs sake is wrong with a gas pipeline from Russia to Germany through the Baltic Sea? Why is that perceived as so much of a threat to Poland, that it is worth to break political china by comparing it to the Hitler-Stalin-pact, and that it'll be one of the main subject of your new president's upcoming visit in Washington? I mean, it's only a ****ing gas pipeline, it's a matter purely of Russia and Germany, it's not that it would steal anything from Poland. Why that whole hystery about it?

Let me exaplain. This pipeline prevents Poland stealing from Russia and inderectly from Germany. We have a bunch of whining parasites here who are about to loose their bloody candy. Simple as that.

[lord of the mark]

reinforcing German-Russian economic and political relations, and even making Germany economically dependent on Russia. That HAS to make the Poles feel good.

[Harovan]

Poland itself buys 70% of its natural gas from Russia. And as of now, Germany buys loads of oil and gas from Russia too. I would call both of that pretty dependent already now. That's nothing bad, it's called trading for mutual benefit. The new pipeline changes nothing substantial.

Also, I don't see a sane reason, why we should ask anyone, where to secure our future energy resources, or what way we should direct our pipelines. Some have no qualms to buy their stuff from such paragons of freedom and democracy like Saudi Arabia. Others wage wars for it, we trade and build pipelines. What is better?

[Barnabas]

who do they hate more in poland? russians or germans?

[Harovan]

Never thought of that. My take would be they hate both about equally.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Poland itself buys 70% of its natural gas from Russia. And as of now, Germany buys loads of oil and gas from Russia too. I would call both of that pretty dependent already now. That's nothing bad, it's called trading for mutual benefit. The new pipeline changes nothing substantial.

Also, I don't see a sane reason, why we should ask anyone, where to secure our future energy resources, or what way we should direct our pipelines. Some have no qualms to buy their stuff from such paragons of freedom and democracy like Saudi Arabia. Others wage wars for it, we trade and build pipelines. What is better?

Germany doesnt have to ask anyone. Its not surprising though that the Russian - German relationship troubles Poles, as some are troubled by US - Saudi relations. By the way we trade with Saudi Arabia and get our oil from their by ship (as do many other countries, BTW, including some in Europe I think) how does that differ.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Serb

Let me exaplain. This pipeline prevents Poland stealing from Russia and inderectly from Germany. We have a bunch of whining parasites here who are about to loose their bloody candy. Simple as that.

so then why does Russia object to pipelines from central asia and azerbaijan that bypass Russia?