Why must intelligent design be stopped

[Patroklos]

I guess there is some faith is involved... I have faith in academic institutions and the procedures involved with regards to the scientific method. I can trust that the work that is being done is legitimate because it is examined by a community of scientists and peer-reviewed. Every bit of information is scrutinized. Every conclusion must be supported. The t's must be crossed and the i's must be dotted.

We would hope so, but then again how many times has the scientific community been turned upside down when things don't turn out how they had previously been proven to be.

Face it, in the majority of fields EVERYONE is given the scientific version of a rain dance/goat sacrifice/priest chanting at the altar. Just enough to allow us to accept the basic tenents of the idea and we place our faith on that.

[Ben Kenobi]

I have, and it confirmed for me that biologists make up lots of things that don't really fit into the idea that natural selection is responsible for most of the traits that people have.

You haven't answered the trailer park analogy. Evolutionists are saying that there is a natural force which acts contrary to entropy, acting over a large amount of time to increase rather then decrease complexity. They don't postulate the way in which this force works, other then through natural selection.

To say that God is responsible for evolution acknowledges the things that biologists assert about how one species changes into another, even as it argues against a natural cause for the process.

Moreover, taken to the extremes of both, I think that the Abrahamic religions and scientific method are mutually exclusive and I should like to hear arguments to the contrary.

Indeed. Look at the history of europe, Whaleboy. Didn't the monks preserve the knowledge of the ancients, such that they could eventually be distributed across the world? To say that Christianity cannot be reconciled with scientific investigation shows a lack of understanding of the contributions in which Christians have provided to the development of science. That's not even talking about all the Jews who have made a significant contribution.

In as far as a given scientist is concerned however, with a normal professional career, he is not a hypocrite if he has faith and concurs with modern scientific theories like evolution, big bang, continental drift, m-brane theory etc.

And he is a hypocrite if he believes in ID? A puzzling statement. If he can believe in evolution and not be a hypocrite, then you have refuted your own statement that science and Christianity cannot be reconciled.

[Atahualpa]

We would hope so, but then again how many times has the scientific community been turned upside down when things don't turn out how they had previously been proven to be.

Yeah? Remind me of what happened when the world didn't turn out to be flat

[Ben Kenobi]

I guess there is some faith is involved... I have faith in academic institutions and the procedures involved with regards to the scientific method. I can trust that the work that is being done is legitimate because it is examined by a community of scientists and peer-reviewed. Every bit of information is scrutinized. Every conclusion must be supported. The t's must be crossed and the i's must be dotted.

There are standards for scientific studies and data collection.

The same cannot be said for religion.

What is the scientific method, sava? Is there agreement by those who conduct scientific investigations as to the best way in which it ought to be conducted?

[Sava]

Originally posted by Patroklos


We would hope so, but then again how many times has the scientific community been turned upside down when things don't turn out how they had previously been proven to be.

Face it, in the majority of fields EVERYONE is given the scientific version of a rain dance/goat sacrifice/priest chanting at the altar. Just enough to allow us to accept the basic tenents of the idea and we place our faith on that.

if you have a specific argument supporting ID, then please, present it...

but don't present this strawman about "the scientific community"...

if I were to rank who I would trust about things... the scientific community would be near the top (if not #1...) and religious leaders would be probably dead last.


And where is the evidence that supports ID?

PLEASE, SOMEONE, SHOW ME SOME EVIDENCE.

That's all I ask. You want to convince me? Show me evidence.

[Ben Kenobi]

Yeah? Remind me of what happened when the world didn't turn out to be flat

Uh, a rather unusual Greek called eratosthenes settled that even before there was a Christianity.

[Patroklos]

What happened when lighting was discovered not to be from the hand of Zeus?

[Sava]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


What is the scientific method, sava? Is there agreement by those who conduct scientific investigations as to the best way in which it ought to be conducted?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

[Ben Kenobi]

For example the theory of general relativity was invented, gained supporters, and only later confirmed by experiment.

Thank you sava. I was hoping to find that.

Is this so different from ID? The current biological theories with evolution aren't working very well. The charge that has been lain against the ID folks for making the theory first, and then trying to see if it explains things better, isn't really a good critique, is it?

[Patroklos]

And where is the evidence that supports ID?

PLEASE, SOMEONE, SHOW ME SOME EVIDENCE.

That's all I ask. You want to convince me? Show me evidence.

I am not trying to convince you, I just want you to accept the obvious that ID and science, while parallel, are seperate and not inerfereing with your faith in the scientific method.

Then maybe zealots like yourself (as well as your self apointed zealot enemies) can let those of us not running around with our heads cut off get back to serious things, and you can go back to playing BF2 all day.

[Atahualpa]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Uh, a rather unusual Greek called eratosthenes settled that even before there was a Christianity.

Funny how christianity then still claimed it was flat, after they should have already known

[Atahualpa]

Originally posted by Patroklos
What happened when lighting was discovered not to be from the hand of Zeus?

I just had a soup and some sausages and you?

[Ben Kenobi]

Which is why I suppose, the Christian empire formed on the union of Castile and Aragon sponsored Columbus.

Where did the Christians ever say that the world was flat, atahualpa? The early Christians were very familiar with the accomplishments of the Greeks, including eratosthenes.

[Atahualpa]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Thank you sava. I was hoping to find that.

Is this so different from ID? The current biological theories with evolution aren't working very well. The charge that has been lain against the ID folks for making the theory first, and then trying to see if it explains things better, isn't really a good critique, is it?

This is not the point! The point is that it's not okay to teach it in school. Do research on it as much as you like, I am sure the vatican will give you lots of money, if you've got a good research-plan.

[Atahualpa]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Which is why I suppose, the Christian empire formed on the union of Castile and Aragon sponsored Columbus.

Where did the Christians ever say that the world was flat, atahualpa? The early Christians were very familiar with the accomplishments of the Greeks, including eratosthenes.

yeah sure and I guess they never claimed the sun moves around the earth as well