I took a loan

[Pekka]

lol you're one funny cat

This is what I talk about whne I mean Greenies and Lefties. Just because YOU think we should all use mass transit doesn't make it the only viable option, you force your oppression to others.

Second of all, now this is all the fault of right wing? That's rich. We don't even have right wing. True Finns don't count. It was your leftist buddies who destroyed it, and that's it.

You can't enforce these by punishing everyone else for what you feel is the right way. Bring back mass transit, build it to be VIABLE solution, and we'll see then. Before that, it shoudln't even be a question.

So endorsing private driving is now fascism? Hey I'm not the one enforcing and limiting options. I'm for expanding options. Unlike you. Ooh but the poor environment? That's not even an argument in Finland.

[Pekka]

commies sticking together, what a surprise!

commies

STOP TRYING TO GET INTO MY BUSINESS and the business of other people. IF YOU LIKE mass transit, please use it. Endorse it to others. If no one likes it, then stfu already!

[Footie Mad]

I cannot for the life of me understand why the tax money from gasoline is not used to subsidize mass transport. If it is the bus should be much cheaper, the only downside would be that it's a little less comfortable and does not represent the idea of "american freedom" that having your own car does.
But I would never use a car if I could use a bicycle and get there within half an hour, if you live in a large area it's a different matter of course.

[Pekka]

And that's because anyone who thinks busses are sufficient are the ones who live right next to bus stops.

For example where I worked for the whole summer, and hundreds and hundreds work all the time, the bus is not an option, it doesn't go there! Not even near! Car is the ONLY way to get there, or if you live close, then bike. But not everyone lives close.

With your ideas, these epople would be majorly ****ed. But that's cool, because YOU can manage with the bus routes because you can get where you need to go with them. Not all of us can.

Oh and by the way, in Turku, I use mass transit. Or walk.

[Az]

Oh, and btw, my bus coverage is pretty lame, so stfu.

[Pekka]

If you live in Helsinki, or Turku, or Tampere, you can use mass transit, I mean most could use it I'm sure. Outside them, it's not even option. Have you ever gone anywhere else?

Also, the mass transit in here is one of the worst I've ever seen. Even LA has better mass transit. And cheaper. Of course I'm the one living in dream world, when I know that mass transit is just not possible for a big group of people, because it doesn't take them where they need to go, and if you suggest that if left wing takes power, which it has, that there would be major networking going on, you gotta be kidding yourself. Just look at the map and come back to reality, it's impossible in this country, outside big cities.

[Footie Mad]

That's incorrect actually many people I know (and also myself sometimes) had to use a bicycle to take them to the bus station and then take the bus to the train station in order to take the train, for example. For some people it's not an option to use the car every day, even when the gasoline prices were lower. Especially not if you have one income and a couple of children to support.

I don't know what it costs if you want a bus pass for a month in Finland but here it's very much cheaper than having to maintain a car and pay for fuel. However i'm not dismissing your point as I actually think people should get support for their transportation to and from work, either by the state or the company. Wether it be public transport or subsidizing car travel when that's not a feasible option.

[Az]

There is no intercity public transport in Finland? Weird.

[laurentius]

You seem to have misunderstood my post a bit. I didnt say endorsing private driving is fascism. Its quite far from it actually. You said however that the True Finns(neo nazis) only barely qualify as Right Wing for you so I must assume that the only Right way for you is the most ultra Right in other words fascist...

Personally I dont use busses...I am more quickly at the Uni by bike. If I had like lots of money I might buy myself a car and drive it to remote places but not the 10-20 km journeys I bike a day. If theres a need for something the markets will fulfill that need with something. Its really not rare in this world to see employers having company busses to take empleyrs to the city for example. How difficult is it to inform your employer theres a need for this, Huh? It would save everyone tons of money annually. You see all you need is some imagination...

[laurentius]

Az: There is intercity public transportation in Finland.

Pekka doesnt seem to understand that in L.A. theres slightly more users for their mass transit whereas in here there arent and thats why its more expensive. He and I we both agree that the current system in Turku is a joke but he doesnt want to improve it. Instead he wants lower gas taxes so that He can drive His car around.

[Pekka]

Well Az and laurentiues, I'm not against mass transit. I'm all for it. I wish it was better. I hope it gets better in here and I don't care if the left wing will do it, as long as it gets done. It's important. And yes, many people would have more need to it, especially the ones who don't have cars.

But it needs to be a real choice, it needs to be cheaper and better quality.

I'm NOT against this. I think it's good and what we need. Actually with the high taxes, I think it's something some of that money needs to go more.

Now, I don't see why this has to compete with private driving. They are two different things, and the gas prices are a joke. It's too high.

We need lower gas prices, lower taxes on new cars, AND better mass transit. Quality and convinience should be the factors in competition, not that we make driving cars impossible. Make it a good solution, which it now isn't. Where we end up is bad mass transit and no one can afford drive cars. Good. Let's just stay home then.

No no.. good mass transit, from tax money, and gasoline prices down. Both of them. That's what I seek.

Who suffers most if gas prices are high, the rich or the ones with not so much money? The rich can afford 9 euros a litre. It's not a factor. Who suffers from high taxes on new cars? Rich can afford them anyway. This ONLY damages the ones who don't have that much money!! And that's why Greenies are fundamentally party that only rich people can afford.

Now, let's make it simple. Better mass transit, that is avaialble for more people with better quality and cheaper prices. And gasoline prices down, and the cars that are enviromental bombs, throw exta taxes on them then, fi you get a hard on for taxes.

[Az]

Most big employers here have shuttle rides from and two the plant.

[Pekka]

laurentius, incorrect. I want Turku to have better mass transit, at least the level of Helsinki, and better for everyone else too outside Turku. I do promote this, but not by punishing the ones who drive cars.

[Pekka]

Az, good for them.

[Footie Mad]

The size of Israel and Finland is a bit different though, you can't have shuttles all over Finland that would cost like ten times the national budget.