Are You Ready for Some FOOTBALL! - Week 7

[Sava]

Imran: What exactly is your point?

You say I am pwned, but yet, you aren't proving your point!


I say Vick is mediocre... I post the stats to prove. I win.

I say Atlanta wins with running game and defense. I post the stats to prove. I win.

Short and sweet. I win. You are pwned.

Stop kidding yourself. Vick is mediocre. Atlanta wins with rushing game and defense (and the occasional Vick big play rush).

And BTW, without Vicks rushing yards, Atlanta is... hold on to your seat... number 2 in the NFL in rushing!!! ZOMFG!!!

That is of course, not taking into account what possible rushing yards Atlanta's replacement QB would have. Jim Mora Jr. says the offensive game plan is the same with Schaub in there. But I'll be honest, Schaub is no Vick, despite him having some nice scrambles against Minnesota. If Schaub is Atlanta's starter instead of Vick, I say he has around 50 yards rushing on the year... which would still make Atlanta 1st in the NFL in rushing.












I pwn you so bad it is funny!!!!!

[Imran Siddiqui]

And BTW, without Vicks rushing yards, Atlanta is... hold on to your seat... number 2 in the NFL in rushing!!! ZOMFG!!!

Please... take out Vick's 902 rushing yards last year and Atlanta finishes 20th in rushing with 1770 rushing yards. And they most likely don't make the playoffs.

And you keep parroting 'rushing game and defense' and completely ignore 2003 when Vick was injured. 2-10 when he was out. 3-1 when he came back. Why did the defense drop to last in the league when he was out? Why did the rushing game not pick up the slack? Dunn may have been injured for some games, but it didn't seem to be an issue when Vick came back.

It's an interesting phenomenon. When Vick started in 2002, he led his team to a 9-6-1 record and the playoffs (winning the first playoff game at Lambeau by an opposing team). When he was injured in 2003, they finished 5-11. When he started in 2004 they went 12-4 and back to the playoffs. Hmmm... what could have been the missing link in 2003? PWNED!

So continue parroting your line without any facts... and continue to get pwned over and over again. It seems you like getting smacked down.

[Sava]

I already proven you wrong about 2003...

and I used your own stats against you

reread my earlier posts

[Imran Siddiqui]

2003 Sava, 2003. You've proven absolutely nothing. You've said the defense and rushing game sucked in 2003 and that's why they lost... WHY DID THEY SUCK IN 2003? You have a great difficult in putting 2 and 2 together, Sava. You've been pwned, but don't want to admit it. 2003 proves the value of Mike Vick to the Falcons. It shows how mediocre and crappy the team is without Vick under center.

I'll give you Peyton Manning, Brady, and McNabb as better than Vick overall. But after that, I'm taking Vick. Perhaps Big Ben Roethlisburger is his equal and Eli Manning is getting there, but I'd still take Vick. Only Brady, and maybe McNabb, has better leadership skills and can lead a team farther than they should be.

[Sava]

guys I take before Michael Vick:

(in no particular order)

Peyton Manning, Brady, McNabb, Brees, Leftwich, Culpepper (despite his poor start), McNair, Green, Hasselbeck, and Eli Manning.

and so far this year, if I've got a fantasy team, I'm starting the following guys before Vick: Dilfer, Bledsoe, Collins, and Bulger... and depending on the matchup, probably Delhomme and Brunnell

Imran... regarding 2003... you obviously didn't read my posts... I'm not going to repeat myself. Read my earlier posts or STFU. I did not say the loss of Vick had nothing to do with Atlanta sucking. Vick does have value... but he is not everything to that team.

I understand your frustration. You are an Atlanta homer and Vick fanboy... and you are mad because I said I was happy that Vick was injured.

But please, stop kidding yourself.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Imran... regarding 2003... you obviously didn't read my posts... I'm not going to repeat myself.

Um.. yes I did. And you didn't prove anything. You looked the surface and went away. You didn't look at the 3 years and say Hmmmm... why was that year different. Did they gut their defense? Did they get all new running back? Hmmm... no... what could it be. Hmmm...

Sorry, but if that counts as analysis from you, best to stop doing it!

Vick does have value... but he is not everything to that team.

Bull****! There is a reason that people panic when Vick gets hurt (even a minor knee sprain), because they can see the season slide out from under them. Schaub, hopefully, is a better QB than Doug Johnson (though before Vick went down in '03 Johnson was thought to be one of the better backups in the league), so if Vick goes down for a season HOPEFULLY they can win 6 games or more... but beyond that, not a chance. Without Vick, the Falcons suck.

I understand your frustration.

I understand yours. Vick is lauded in the media. He made the Pro Bowl in 2002 and 2004 and if he stays healthy he'll make it again in 2005. If he avoids injury, he'll lead the Falcons to the playoffs year after year and when he hangs his cleats up will be a first ballot Hall of Famer. So I realize you are frustrated because you can't wrap your head around the fact that a running QB is thought of so highly.

[Sava]

will be a first ballot Hall of Famer

[Imran Siddiqui]

You can laugh all you want, but as long as Vick stays away from long term injuries, he'll get there (he gets Pro Bowl spots every year he plays more than 5 games!). And if he wins a Superbowl or two, it'll be a slam dunk for the first ballot.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
You can laugh all you want, but as long as Vick stays away from long term injuries, he'll get there (he gets Pro Bowl spots every year he plays more than 5 games!). And if he wins a Superbowl or two, it'll be a slam dunk for the first ballot.

tell me Imran...

How many modern era QB's with a career 53.9 completion % and career 77.3 are in the hall?

modern era QB's in the hall (passer rating, yards, completion %)

Marino: 86.4; 61,361; 59.4%
J. Kelly: 84.4; 35,467; 60.1%
J. Elway: 79.9; 51,475; 56.8%
S. Young: 96.8; 33,124; 64.2%
J. Montana: 92.3; 40,551; 63.2%

and I'll throw Brett Favre in there because he will be in the hall

Favre: 87.2; 50,775; 61.5%

you are seriously smoking some strong stuff if you think Vick compares to any of these guys

Even if he is healthy and plays for the next ten years at his peak performance, he will be lucky to get 27,000 career yards (if his best season can be an indicator for his top performance). But Vick is injury prone... he will probably have a short career.

Vick will have to transform his game learn to think "Pass First" like McNabb... or he will turn into Kordell Stewart and his NFL career will go nowhere.

[Imran Siddiqui]

How many modern era QB's with a career 53.9 completion % and career 77.3 are in the hall?

How many modern era QBs can do what Vick does with his legs, Sava? How many have run for 900+ yards in a season? How many made the Pro Bowl in their first two years of starting? Elway didn't, Montana didn't, Kelly didn't, Young didn't. Only Marino and Farve did.

The thing you simply don't understand (for whatever reason) is that Vick is a different breed of QB in the NFL. He's not like the pocket passers of old. He's a QB who can change a game with his legs. Elway, Young and Montana were good scramblers, but they didn't have the game changing ability that Vick does.

Vick will have to transform his game learn to think "Pass First" like McNabb... or he will turn into Kordell Stewart and his NFL career will go nowhere.

Stewart never cracked 500 yards rushing in a season and has only made the Pro Bowl once.

By his 4th season (and 2nd as a starter) Vick eclipsed Stewart in both.

And there is no rule saying that Vick can't improve as a passer. His first two years starting are eerly similar to a young John Elway in his first two years. Though, if he does reach a passing level similar to a McNabb, he'll be utterly unstoppable. He already is every defensive coordinator's nightmare, even with middle of the road passing stats. That's the scary thing. He's already leading his team to victory while not being that great of a passer. When that falls into place... watch out.

And speaking of Steve Young, that's one QB and analyst that thinks Vick WILL become a good passer.

[Donegeal]

I just got this in my e-mail and thought that it belonged here...

APPLETON(AP) - A seven-year-old boy was at the center of a
Appleton,Wis.courtroom drama yesterday when he challenged a court
ruling over who should have custody of him. The boy has a history of
being
beaten by his parents and the judge initially awarded custody to his
aunt, in keeping with child custody law and regulations requiring that
family unity be maintained to the degree possible.

The boy surprised the court when he proclaimed that his aunt beat him
more than his parents and he adamantly refused to live with her. When
the judge then suggested that he live with his grandparents, the boy
cried out that they also beat him.

After considering the remainder of the immediate family and learning
that domestic violence was apparently a way of life among them, the
judge took the unprecedented step of allowing the boy to propose who
should have custody of him.

After two recesses to check legal references and confer with child
welfare officials, the judge granted temporary custody to the Green Bay
Packers, whom the boy firmly believes are not capable of beating
anyone.

[Sava]

pro bowls don't mean jack****...

everybody is fawning over Vick's rushing ability...

Vick has yet to reach a pro bowl on the merits of his passing ability

Elway didn't, Montana didn't, Kelly didn't, Young didn't.

so you'd take Vick instead of those guys?

How many have run for 900+ yards in a season?

I think they were too busy passing for 3000 and 4000+ yards

[Imran Siddiqui]

Vick has yet to reach a pro bowl on the merits of his passing ability

Trapped in the old viewpoints. You are like the crotchedly old men who don't like belly button piercing because that wasn't how it was done in the old days.

He's a new breed of QB. Get over it.

so you'd take Vick instead of those guys?

Strawman Alert!

Though if we were picking after the first 2 years of starting, I may take Vick over Elway and Young (at the very least they'd be tied).

[Sava]

He's a new breed of QB. Get over it.

scrambling QB's are nothing new...

see Kordell Stewart and Randall Cunningham (which is probably the best Vick can hope to become, although Randall passed for 3,000 yards 5 times, which Vick has yet to do)...

I may take Vick over Elway and Young

[Imran Siddiqui]

scrambling QB's are nothing new...

He's NOT a 'scrambling' QB. He's a different sort. He's a running QB. I don't remember Stewart or Cunningham running designed QB sweeps. They ran around avoiding the rush and ran the occasional draw or two.

And why are you ? Have you SEEN the stats for Elway and Young their first two years as starters? It isn't that good at all. I think Elway has a lower completition percentage than Vick had at the end of his 2nd starting season. Young wasn't that far ahead (if he was).