Cindy Sheehan Has No Moral Authority

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Velociryx
I started off as an ardent supporter of this war. If you don't believe that, have a look at some of the archived threads.

At this point, my position has almost completely reversed itself. The sooner we get OUT of that $hithole, the better for everyone, including the Iraqi people.

The sooner BUSH is out of office, the better for the entire world.

Cindy.

-=Vel=-
(my opinion changed when I realized that the whole reason for the war was trumped up by Bush and Company....built on a pack of lies sold to the public. I don't like being lied to, and I don't like it when those lies lead to needless deaths, cos Shrub had a hard on for finishing daddy's unfinished business, and was willing to do ANYTHING to make that happen).

You broke it. You bought it.

Don't you think the US has an obligation to stick around and try to fix it?

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Berzerker


You mean the US aircraft attacking them? They were there to enforce a no fly zone, i.e., shootdown Iraqi planes. I agreed with the no-fly zones but it does appear we had no legal standing. The terms of the cease fire allowed the Iraqis the use of certain kinds of aircraft and he used them to put down the revolt. Schwarzkopf said "we were snookered" in the negotiations, I suspect we wanted Saddam to put down the revolt for the sake of stability. Public outcry resulted in the no fly zones...

That was an immoral thing we did after Gulf War 1, egging on the people of Iraq to revolt and then leaving them out to dry while they got mowed down with helicopter gunships.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Who cares if Iraq attacked the US? Japan's the only country who ever has, but that doesn't mean that every other war we ever fought was wrong.

*Ahem*

[Az]

Not that. PLEASE I AM BEGGING YOU NOT THE ****ING 1812 DISCUSSION.

[Ted Striker]

[Berzerker]

According to historians, every soldier in Napoleoan's army carried a marshall's baton in his backback.

According to you, every soldier in America's army carries a Supreme Court Justice's robes in his.

Agents of the government take an oath to uphold the Constitution just like the President and those Supreme Court justices. So yes, I'd want people employed by government to have a thorough understanding of their legal authority as it appears in the Constitution and not rely on some guy in a black robe.

[notyoueither]

I think soldiers swear to obey lawful orders of their officers and chain of command, all the way up to the president. Correct me if I am wrong.

The determination of lawfulness falls to your Congress and courts.

It is for them (Congress and the courts, not enlisted personnel) to decide what is lawful or not. Right?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I believe according to the US Military Code that soldiers are obligated to ignore unlawful orders. Although how many times it happens... ::shrug::

[Berzerker]

You broke it. You bought it.

Don't you think the US has an obligation to stick around and try to fix it?

Yup, which is why so many people are willing to give Bush a pass, but it was broke before and we had a hand in that as well. I've been tolerant of Bush because of the greater good Az sees, I see it too. But then I see Cindy Sheehan and I see Bush lied, or was duped so extensively his incompetence cannot be rewarded with further employment. This is far worse than what Clinton did to get impeached.

[notyoueither]

... and I don't think that your asking high school drop outs to properly judge the merits or demerits of the Constitutionality of a given military action (which was not only approved of, but called for by Congress) is a very reasonable expectation.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I believe according to the US Military Code that soldiers are obligated to ignore unlawful orders. Although how many times it happens... ::shrug::

That only applies for orders to commit murder, or rape, or violations of the Gevena Conventions and so forth.

[Az]

I don't think they take dropouts to the US military.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I believe according to the US Military Code that soldiers are obligated to ignore unlawful orders. Although how many times it happens... ::shrug::

'Kill these civvies.'? Yes.

'Deploy to this theatre and obey your commanders when ordered into action'? I think that goes a little beyond the question of the private's prerogative to disobey.

[Imran Siddiqui]

GePap (while somewhat biased source):

http://www.counterpunch.org/mosqueda02272003.html

The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809.ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the "lawful command of his superior officer," 891.ART.91 (2), the "lawful order of a warrant officer", 892.ART.92 (1) the "lawful general order", 892.ART.92 (2) "lawful order". In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.

During the Iran-Contra hearings of 1987, Senator Daniel Inouye of Hawaii, a decorated World War II veteran and hero, told Lt. Col. Oliver North that North was breaking his oath when he blindly followed the commands of Ronald Reagan. As Inouye stated, "The uniform code makes it abundantly clear that it must be the Lawful orders of a superior officer. In fact it says, 'Members of the military have an obligation to disobey unlawful orders.' This principle was considered so important that we-we, the government of the United States, proposed that it be internationally applied in the Nuremberg trials." (Bill Moyers, "The Secret Government", Seven Locks Press; also in the PBS 1987 documentary, "The Secret Government: The Constitution in Crisis")

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Az
I don't think they take dropouts to the US military.

They do now.

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=98160