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45% of Americans are Morons

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  • Kid - thanks. Now I understand what you are doing, and can try to get you to see a structural flaw in what you are doing. You are getting into the Social Sciences, and I have been editing papers for those for 15 years now - plus I went through what would have been an Associates degree in psych myself just for jollies, I was on a scholarship at the time.

    Your "gut feeling" is going to be a largely emotional reaction, and will in part become influenced as much, if not more, by presentation as by the facts. That is what modern attack ads and political campaigns rely on. Most people do what you are doing.

    Your gut feeling is also going to be largely influenced by your childhood. How religious/spiritual was it? I have a gut feeling that the world is unfair, and terrible things can happen at any time to those you love. From my posting about my family, I suspect you can understand the context. Yet, in the case of my little girl, I MUST not let that lead me to overprotecting her, an admittedly strong tendency.

    To use a "Gut Feeling" to make a rational decision, i.e. "Luke, use the force" is one of the worst misapplications of the cognitive processes around. You use a gut feeling when deciding who to trust, who to date, etc. I ignored my gut feeling when the FAA forced my transfer 10 years ago and rented my house to a jerk that did thousands of dollars of damage that I couldn't recover. The flaw of misapplying the cognitive function and not going with the intuiotive, gut feeling.

    You are making a misapplication in the opposite direction. It would be like programming via a "gut feeling". A processor doesn't give a rats ass about your gut feeling - you write bad code, it doesn't work. The same applies to making judgements about the validity of science.

    Your reaction, to pull out of the thread, is the right one if that is how you are going to approach scientific discourse. The majority of the people here understand the use of reason in the realms of science, and all that will happen is frustration on all sides. Thanks for continuing to try to explain where you were coming from. But keep this in mind, Kid.

    They have been doing some studies on people and politics. Today's politicians and political operatives WANT people like you. They can use speeches, attack adds, emotional appeals, and all the other tools in their arsenal to keep you voting with whichever party you identify with, while not serviing your interests. That is why the political debates here get so acrimonious - the intuitive - do I trust this politician - and the rational - do his policies and record represent what I believe in - will inevitably cross in that area, and people will argue until they are blue, or red, in the face.
    The worst form of insubordination is being right - Keith D., marine veteran. A dictator will starve to the last civilian - self-quoted
    And on the eigth day, God realized it was Monday, and created caffeine. And behold, it was very good. - self-quoted
    Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
    Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry… I wish it were otherwise.

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    • Kid, are you in California?

      I'm starting to come up with a theory of my own.....
      One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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      • I'll send a PM shawn.
        I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
        - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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        • It's perfectly possible that the universe is the creation of a necessarily existent being, but that purported claim is by definition unknowable.
          Only feebs vote.

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          • Originally posted by Kidicious
            I haven't dismissed any evidence. I've put it in it's proper place.
            You've not addressed any of the evidence presented whatsoever. You've just waved it aside. That's dismissal.

            Irrational yes. I've already admitted that. My decision is based on a gut feeling in that absence of proof.
            No, it appears to be based on a gut feeling based on deliberate ignorance. I ask again: have you bothered to read even a basic evolutionary text?

            We can either discuss the probabity of each possibility of each idea or we can discuss the nature of believe, but I'm sick of being called stupid for believing differently from people when they can't prove me wrong.
            Just because you refuse to admit you've been proven wrong doesn't mean you haven't been. Denial, river in Egypt, etc.

            You've already admitted the nature of your belief is gut instinct, divorced from rational thought. What more is there to discuss?
            Tutto nel mondo è burla

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            • You just became a Christian!?!
              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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              • Originally posted by Dauphin
                The 'theory' argument is as unfortunate as the use of the term 'prove', which classically only ever meant 'to test' (think proof reading).
                (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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                • Originally posted by Kidicious

                  I'm debating whether or not there is proof that man evolved from a lower life form.
                  Fossils and genetics.

                  Oh, and please don't group living things into Higher and Lower, it's anthropocentric and poor form, a living flatworm is just as modern as you or me.

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                  • Originally posted by shawnmmcc
                    Your "gut feeling" is going to be a largely emotional reaction
                    Originally posted by shawnmmcc
                    To use a "Gut Feeling" to make a rational decision
                    Sometimes a "gut feeling" is a decision made on the subconscious level and gets bubbled up to the consciousness.

                    For that to be correct though the person must be very knowledgable and highly experienced in the area. It's like the best sports players don't need to think about what to do next, their subsconsciousness functions fully well.

                    "Gut feeling" can certainly be wrong and should be backed up by careful analyses if possible.
                    (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                    (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                    (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Odin


                      Fossils and genetics.

                      Oh, and please don't group living things into Higher and Lower, it's anthropocentric and poor form, a living flatworm is just as modern as you or me.
                      Yes, but I think we can agree that modern life forms are more advanced than previous ones.
                      Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                      • Not necessarily. "Advanced" is, again, a subjective concept. For example, some species of fish had evolved eyes, but have now de-evolved them as they've survived in dark depths of the oceans. Is an eyeless fish more or less advanced than a fish with working eyes? Depends on the environment. The extra energy needed for eyes in an environment where eyes are useless is a disadvantage.

                        Evolution is about life adapting to surroundings, not about some sort of race to a destination. There is no destination, only a journey.
                        Tutto nel mondo è burla

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                        • I would say a modern eyeless fish is more advanced than a 400 million year old jawless fish.
                          Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                          • Not in an environment where the 400 million year old jawless fish would (for whatever reason) have an advantage over the eyeless fish. Fitness is based on environment, not some sort of measure of physiological complexity. Since environments change relatively often, what constitutes advantage one millennia could mean disadvantage in the next, and it could always reverse, as the eyed-to-eyeless fish show.
                            Tutto nel mondo è burla

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                            • We're not discussing fitness, my friend, but advancement. I'm more advanced than a dinosaur. In the Jurasic Era, however, I would be little more than someone's lunch.
                              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                              Comment


                              • But the point was that "advanced" is not a term used by biologists, as it's so subjective as to be meaningless. It also gives an undue implication of a "goal" for evolution, which is not the case. The only term biologists have for evolutionary success is "fitness."
                                Tutto nel mondo è burla

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