Historical hypothetical: 7 Dec 1941, Japan attacks, George W Bush is President

[lord of the mark]

right wing blogger --

again the left shows it true idiocy. They are now saying that prior Operation Torch (the most glorious, most noble action the republic has ever engaged in) there were no German troops in North Africa. Well General Montgomery might disagree. Where do they think Libya and Egypt are, South America. Typical left wing idiocy. Its a good thing we have a great man like Dubya to put them in their place.

left wing blogger -
The warmongerer neocons are at it again. Evidently they dont know the term "north africa" often refers to specifically FRENCH north Africa. Or perhaps they think libya is French rather than Italian. Or perhaps they think both Libya and Algeria are Japanese - fools!!

right wing blogger -
I have attached a list of uses of the word "north Africa" in the mainstream press in the last 5 years, including appeasement publications, and it shows that north africa, without explicit reference to "french north africa" includes Libya and egypt at least 90% of the time. Obviously the leftie bloggers in denying this are sticking their heads in the sand, as we all did before Pearl. If we follow these folks, we will have many more pearl harbors, and worse.


left wing blogger - but it IS French North Africa we're talking about, so why would you exclude references to French north africa in your count? are you as stupid as your president.


right wing blogger -
actually there WAS German presence in FRENCH north africa before Torch. I have attached a list of German diplomatic personnel, business people, present in Casablanca, Algiers, Oran, PRIOR to the invasion.

left wing blogger -
big deal. There were AMERICAN diplomats and businessmen present in all the same cities

right wing blogger
so now youre equating Americans and Nazis? more of the kind of moral equivalence weve come to expect from you.

[Ramo]

He declares war on the Soviet Union on the theory that since the threat of Communism lead to the rise of Fascism, ending the Red Menace will cause fascist states to turn into peaceful democracies.

[Barinthus]

LOTM

[Mr. Harley]

Dbuya denies that there is a depression. He calls it an economic correction, and continues Coolidge's policies. Due to a lack of funding, and a determined belief in free markets, the US military buildup does not occur. Note his own party of the time helps block his proposed deficit spending.

He increases the use of US troops domestically to "maintain order", as he calls strike-breaking activity. The country becomes even more divided. When asked about lynching activity, he states that is an issue of states rights, and nothing is done (which is what happened anyway FYI). Anyone who engagaes in an "illegal" strike - there are almost no legal ones under his critieria - is branded a felon, and banned from voting. As a result, Bush by 1940 has a Republican House, and the Democratic majority in the Senate is threatened.

He has called the Axis the Axis of Evil, but at the same time called the Soviet Union the largest threat to ever face Western Democracy. Pearl Harbor occurs on schedule, but due to the lack of US provocations, the Nazis do not declare war on the US. Their attitude is that the Japanese screwed Germany with the Soviet Union, the USA is their problem.

Bush gives war contracts only to favored companies. The P51 never gets produced, and the mainline US fighter is the P39 Aircobra and the P40. This leads to a constant struggle in the air in the Pacific, with neither side gaining a clear advantage. The B17 is the end of American bomber development, as it will obviously be more than adequate, and heavy bombers are too expensive anyway.

The Battle of the Coral Sea turns out the same, but from then on history diverges. Due to the lack of manpower, as the draft was not reinstated - we won't need THAT many troops in the case of war, just 10 or 20 divisions - Guadalcanal and the Solomons are lost to the Japanese. They also invade New Caledonia, off the east coast of Australia, partially inderdicting supplies.

Instead of Murmansk convoys, the losses are taken supplying Australia. The Japanese take New Guineau, and make landings in portions of northern Australia. The lack of technological superiority means that the subsequent struggle to push the Japanese out of Australia and the Solomons is long and bloody, and is not completed until well into 1944.

America stands on principle, and does not engage in unrestricted submarine warfare. The Japanese get the oil fields in Indonesia up and running, and the lack of US supplies gives them the decisive hand in China, with the Nationalist forces being decisively defeated. However, Mao's communist insurgency continues to bleed the Japanese dry, and the resulting warfare and Japanese reprisals depopulate large areas of the Chinese hinterlands.

The Japanese invade India, and get their units chewed up. This occurs in 1943, and Japanese naval air units cannot be pulled out of the Australian theatre to bail the Japanses army out. The resulting stalemate results in the Japanese taking increasingly high casualities, as their lack of effective armor and the inferior quality of their army air lets the Brits claim victory.

However, Britian is limping along the rest of the war. They refuse to surrender but at the same time are unable to effectively counter the Nazis. Their unresticted night bombing causes the Nazis to develop their own heavy bomber. The unrestricted night bombing campaigns of 1944 and 1945 raze European cities, until the British actually run low on bombs. The Nazis don't, and all of Britian south of the Scottish border is devastated.

The Brits fight the Nazis to a standstill in Egypt, with the lack of US lend lease causes Montgomery to perpetually delay a counteroffensive. This is exascerbated by the lack of Indian troops, tied up in the conflict along their border with Japan. Rommel is equally starved, due to the situation in the Soviet Union.

The Nazis do not take Moscow, and Stalingrad instead of being a unmitigated disaster instead becomes a bloody stalemate, lasting into 1943. The Soviets, without US radios and trucks, are unable to start their counter-offensives until 1944, and at that point the newer German technologies, plus the fact that the entire US war effort is focused on Japan, results in a similiarly bloody stalement on the Russian front.

The US A-bomb effort is stymied, as Bush is assured by his favored US domestic science advisors the Enrico Fermi is a foreigner not to be trusted. The Nazis and US gain the A-bomb at the same time, in 1946. Neither has a good delivery system. The B17 doesn't have the range, and the V2 is a single highly experimental prototype. The US deposits their bomb in Tokyo bay with a submarine, and the Nazis use theirs to kill Stalin.

In 1946 the resulting chaos of Stalin's death leads to Nazi pseudo-victory, which results instead of the term Vietnam going into military histories as a quagmire, Soviet Union becomes the standard term. Hitler's failing health due to his Parkinson's disease causes a small scale civil war among the Nazis. Purges, counter-purges, and actual warfare between SS and Wehrmacht units means that the Nazis cannot capitalize on their vicotry in the Soviet Union.

The US continues it's slow, steady attack on the Japanese empire. It is hugely costly, and instead only goes up over New Guineau and into the Philipines, as MacArthur is Bush's primary military advisor. The Navy only builds half the carriers they want, and the Japanese, after the Nuking of Tokyo, are more fanatical and determined in their defense.

After the end of the Nazi's civil war, Himmler and the Gestapo are now firmly in control of Germany. The resulting purges result in even fewer scientists and engineers (the Nazis in the 1930's had already cut the number of graduates in those fields by half). They continue to bleed troops to Soviet partisans, and the resulting massacres, work camps, extermination camps, and general reprisals against the Slavs make the extermination of the European Jews look like childs play.

By 1948 over 100 million have died in the occupied areas of the Soviet Union. The US has taken the Phillipines, Iwo Jima, and Okinawa. An invasion is about to begin, and the losses without air domination over the Japanese island will be staggering. In China the Japanese brutal occupation policies may have killed as many as the Nazis "Slavic solution".

The US is planning a nuclear bombing campaign from the air bases on Okinawa, with specially modified B17R's to carry the bombs. As the Japanese have the George in production (a good modern radial engined fighter) and stockpiled oil from before the fall of the Phillipines, which cut their supply lines, their have been no fire bomb raids. The A-bombs will not stop the invasion.

The losses from invading Japan are staggering. Bush is defeated in the 1948 campaign after casualties exceed 1 million in the invasion of Japan, with over 200,000 dead. The new administration, running on an honorable peace, negotiates a settlement. Churchhill is similarly defeated when the Brits now realize the new US adminstation will never help them defeat Himmler's new genocidal state. A dark mantle falls over Europe and China.

[Ramo]

And yes, lotm

[Sprayber]

lotm has shamed you all

[Alexander's Horse]

Donald Rumsfeld is shown the DDAY plans. Decides 6 invasion beaches is far too many. Cuts US landing back to one beach, Omaha. Unveils his plan for light motorised cavalry or "striker" divisions to replace the armoured divisions, which he regards as too heavy and slow for the lightening drive to Berlin he has mapped out for Eisenhower on a post-it note. Patton's Third Army is stripped of tanks and given multi purpose halftracks instead, much faster and more versatile in Rumsfeld view. Rumsfeld overrules generals and cancels airborne attack to coincide with landings. Rumsfeld says DDay will be a walkover anyway, so why waste all those gliders?

Weather is delaying DDAY until the invasion is set for 6 June anyway to fit in with the Presidential vacation which starts on 7 June. Dubya wants to make a victory speech as the troops wade ashore. Ceremonies to accept the German are pencilled in for the third week of August, which is the week Dubya returns from his vacation.

[Tingkai]

After the Battle of the Coral Sea, Bush stands on the deck of the Enterprise and announces, "Mission accomplished."

[Patroklos]

At which point the Left calls the war effort a failure and demands the president create an exit strategy for the war.

[Alexander's Horse]

the left won WWII sonnyjim

Meanwhile Vice President Cheney distances himself from investments by Halliburton in oil fields and rubber plantations seized from Britain in South East Asia. While admitting he provided introductions for Halliburton executives to senior officers of the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy, Cheney denied he played a role in the negotiation of the lucrative deals.

[Patroklos]

Ah, but they are not president this time around are they

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Albert Einstein writes to Dubya warning that the atomic bomb is a possibility.

Dubya decides it's a good idea, then cuts science funding to give a tax break to the rich so that government revenue will rise and that why the government will have money to increase funding for the Manhattan project.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Ah, but they are not president this time around are they

So the facists win?

[Dis]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Bush makes Axis of evil speech - gets Axis wrong, names Soviet Union as enemy, hails fascist Italy as glorious ally. Soviet Union breaks off diplomatic relations, Bush triggers disasterous 3 cornered war in Europe with US on Britain's side in the West and Germany's side in the East

the soviet union was an enemy...

[Patroklos]

So the facists win?

No, we win several years ealier. Terrorists attacked Poland in 1939, so we attak Germany.