"We are now satisfied that he was not connected with the incidents"

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by MarkG
do they have subways in israel?

Apparently.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by MarkG

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200505/s1357370.htm

Israeli security forces have arrested a suspected would-be suicide bomber in the West Bank city of Tulkarm.

looking forward to hearing something like that from the british forces...

You think the Brits have not arrested anyone? They are shooting them all?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Its Markos. He has a vendetta against the Brits because of the Elgin Marbles.

[Kuciwalker]

Here, he can have some.

[Agathon]

The problem is that there are going to be a dozen incidents a day like this if the police do it as a practice. People get scared and enter a state of "flight or fright" – they then proceed to behave irrationally. It's a lot worse when people are living in a foreign country and don't yet understand the cultural cues. If you don't believe this, then my Dad knew loads of British seamen who came near to being shot in Argentina because they simply didn't know the appropriate way to respond to the police. It nearly happened to him once.

If a group of ordinarily dressed people started yelling in Yorkdale subway station, I'd probably think it was a gang, and I'd probably run myself. If I saw guns drawn, I wouldn't know what to do. If someone yells that they're a cop, sometimes they aren't. The sad thing is that the police know this: that's why car chases are generally avoided now. Sure some villains might get away, but a lot less people end up dying.

That guy could be any of us. I have to laugh at some of the dweebs here who are calling this guy a loser. Based on your attitudes here, most of you would **** your pants in such a situation. This was a failure of police policy. The officer should never have been placed in such a situation, and neither should the victim. Saying that people should just put up with incidents like this in the name of security actually makes us less secure and makes the police more prone to mistakes.

[Agathon]

Israel is a really bad example, by the way. Don't they shoot many times as many innocent people as they do bombers?

[notyoueither]

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:raywnwYc4ScJ:https://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages...e+bomber&hl=en

IDF kills Palestinian teen near Netzarim
In a separate incident in Gaza, IDF troops shot dead an unarmed 17-year-old Palestinian and wounded another youth near a road between the border and the settlement of Netzarim, Palestinian medics said.

The IDF said the two Palestinians had entered a restricted military zone and ignored an order given through loudspeakers to leave. Soldiers fired warning shots and then towards the legs of one of the Palestinians before the two ran off, it said.

[Agathon]

That's just fubared.

[notyoueither]

No. That's what happens when you ignore the commands of armed police or soldiers.

[Agathon]

Thank you El Presidente.

In countries that have any sort of respect for human life, the police aren't customarily allowed to open fire just because citizens don't listen to them. A policy that leads to far more innocent people being gunned down than actual criminals is in need of modification.

In the real world, many ordinary innocent people do not act "rationally" when they have guns pointed at them, just as many ordinary people don't act rationally when the police ask them to pull over. Having lax policies on when the police may open fire is just daft and leads to worse outcomes. Even the police know this. I'm surprised that you don't.

[Wiglaf]

Originally posted by notyoueither
No. That's what happens when you ignore the commands of armed police or soldiers.

Wow

In many of these cases, the fault is with the police, not the victim. In London, the police were in plainclothes and shouted in the underground. In your example, the boys were let in a restricted area. Both are bad procedure.

[notyoueither]

Bull.

Stand in front of a cop with a gun (or a knife) and ignore his commands to drop it. See what happens in Toronto, New York, Paris, Madrid, Rome, Berlin, etc., etc...

[notyoueither]

Now act like a suicide bomber in a city that has had eight attacks in the last few weeks, and ignore the police when they give you instructions.

You'd be dead anywhere from Vancouver to Tel Aviv.

[Agathon]

Do you not know about the "Fight or Flight" response, NYE? It has been proven to make people less aware of a situation and more likely to endanger themselves. For example:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_n6_v23/ai_10844219

This is what happens when people are confronted with stressful situations. Their rational faculties shut down and they run like hell. There's nothing wrong with them, it is perfectly natural. If the police shot at everyone who didn't obey orders, the death rate would be far higher than the terrorists could hope to achieve by themselves.

And what goes for civilians goes for cops too. They are less likely to act rationally in stressful situations. That's why it's not really their fault either. They need to be well-trained and aware of the limitations that their own bodies put on them in these situations.

[notyoueither]

As I said earlier, I feel bad for this guy and his family.

At the same time, I do not feel the police did anything wrong.

It's a **** situation, and this guy got it all over him.