just. plain. STUPID.

[chequita guevara]

Smart-ass.

[Pyrodrew]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
That won't work. The idea is that the negative images of sterotypes need to be combatted. Learning about their culture from a standpoint of it having value rather than it being something to be denigrated is seriously helpful.

Why not have a "Combat Negative Stereotype" Culture class then? Why ignore the majority of the class? You don't think there are negative latino stereotypes?

I personally think it doesn't go far enough, but even a little improvement is better than none. And let's face it, those opposing this aren't trying to replace it with something better, fuller, and more usefull. They're just trying to uphold the failing status quo.

Again, it's not magically adding 30minutes to their school day. What class would have them be worse in so you could improve them in this one?

[Pyrodrew]

Re: Re: Opportunity Cost

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Cuz it's California and they are prevented by law from doing so because of the English-only anti-immigrant movement.

I didn't say Spanish, I said Spanglish. Regardless, even if we put that aside why not a Latino "Be Proud" Culture class?

[chequita guevara]

I don't know the specifics of the school. They may already have such classes in place for Latino students, or not. Or the situation with Black students may be so dire that they are starting there.

As for taking away from some other class, what solution do you have then, other than continuing to do what isn't working? Staying the course when you're headed over a cliff is just stupidity.

[Saras]

--"That won't work. The idea is that the negative images of sterotypes need to be combatted. Learning about their culture from a standpoint of it having value rather than it being something to be denigrated is seriously helpful."

How is Ebonics 'culture'? Why not teach about MLK and Duke Ellington?

[chequita guevara]

Re: Re: Re: Opportunity Cost

Originally posted by Pyrodrew
Regardless, even if we put that aside why not a Latino "Be Proud" Culture class?

I personally think that Latino, Black, Indian, etc. history should be taught to all students, regardless of color or ethnic origin. After all, whites folks need to know Black history too, and Black people need to know Hispanic history. After all, if we don't know what each group did that's important, if we only study our own history, we will continue to only see ourselves as important and to see everyone else as unimportant.

And as I mentioned before, we don't know if the district has special cultural pride classes for Latinos or not. The article in question was only mad about Black people.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Saras
--"That won't work. The idea is that the negative images of sterotypes need to be combatted. Learning about their culture from a standpoint of it having value rather than it being something to be denigrated is seriously helpful."

How is Ebonics 'culture'? Why not teach about MLK and Duke Ellington?

How do you think Duke Elington and MLK spoke at home? BEV isn't something new. Also consider that in their own times, both MLK and jazz were denigrated. It took decades for America to recognize MLK as the great man he was, even longer for Jazz to come to be accepted. Why do you assume that BEV has nothing of value to contribute?

[Saras]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara What lanugauage do you think Duke Elington and MLK spoke at home? BEV isn't something new.

How is it relevant to what made them great?

Also consider that in their own times, both MLK and jazz were denigrated. It took decades for America to recognize MLK as the great man he was, even longer for Jazz to come to be accepted.

Hey, 2000 years they crucified people in Rome

Why do you assume that BEV has nothing of value to contribute?

Well for instance, is there a GREAT book written in Ebonics?

[Pyrodrew]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I don't know the specifics of the school. They may already have such classes in place for Latino students, or not. Or the situation with Black students may be so dire that they are starting there.

I've never heard anything to suggest latinos or any racial group get a special culture class that others do not. If you could provide a link saying otherwise fine.

As for taking away from some other class, what solution do you have then, other than continuing to do what isn't working? Staying the course when you're headed over a cliff is just stupidity.

I never said leave what isn't working. But I've yet to see a good argument for ebonics. Even your "combat negative stereotypes" and "be proud" culture class sounded better.

The black and latino culture have many aspects they can be proud about in their culture. It's a bad idea to put all the hope to fight negative stereotypes and get them to be proud simply based on... ebonics, which completely ignores the latinos (the majority) and students that aren't black.

[Pyrodrew]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Opportunity Cost

Originally posted by chegitz guevara I personally think that Latino, Black, Indian, etc. history should be taught to all students, regardless of color or ethnic origin. After all, whites folks need to know Black history too, and Black people need to know Hispanic history. After all, if we don't know what each group did that's important, if we only study our own history, we will continue to only see ourselves as important and to see everyone else as unimportant.

If you want to reform/adjust what is taught in history classes fine. If you want to add 5 New Classes then what classes will you remove?

And as I mentioned before, we don't know if the district has special cultural pride classes for Latinos or not. The article in question was only mad about Black people.

Unless you can provide a link showing special Latino cultural pride classes in public schools are held anywhere in country for students that age we must assume they don't exist. I've never heard of anything like that.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Pyrodrew
I've never heard anything to suggest latinos or any racial group get a special culture class that others do not. If you could provide a link saying otherwise fine.

Roberto Clemente High School in Chicago had such a program centered around Puerto Rican culture, until the Chicago School Board discovered that some of the artists who had been brought in to give a lecture were hazily connected with the FLN (a Puerto Rican terrorist group which was broken in the early 80s--the "discovery" occured in the mid-90s), at which point they started screaming, "training for terrorists" and shut it down.

There were also programs from Mexican and Black students in other schools in Chicago. I know they had such programs in NYC, and I consider it rather unlikely they don't have similar programs in California. Nonetheless, we don't know the specifics about this particluar school system, so it's unwise to speculate either way.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Saras
How is it relevant to what made them great?

It's part of their culture and who they were as people.

Hey, 2000 years they crucified people in Rome

And this is relevent how? Jazz and MLK are called great today, but were denigrated in their own time. Perhaps BEV will be the same.

Well for instance, is there a GREAT book written in Ebonics?

I am unaware of any off the top of my head, but not an insubstantial amount of poetry and song has been written in it. It has greatly influenced the English language as a whole and cultures around the world.

The problem as I see it is that many people see it as debased or broken English, when it isn't. Just because it isn't American Standard English doesn't make it wrong. Just because it's Black doesn't make it wrong. It's just different, and it needs to be appreciated.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Why is there an assumption by so many people that this means that standard American Enlish will no longer be taught?

They intend to teach some courses in Ebonics (according to the original article). They come from the principle that students study better in a language they know. And they are considering teaching "English as a foreign language" (which is a good idea in itself btw).

All of this goes in the direction of offering curricula that are increasingly in Ebonics, not for the "cultural diversity" that JCC defends, but because they think the interest in courses and the learning-efficiency will be better if the students are taught in their language.

This is true. In a foreign language, everything becomes immediately more difficult to learn. Heck, when I learned karate in German, the language barrier gave me some extra trouble...

But with my experience, I now know that language is a key skill. The most important one, in fact. Heck, with my language difficulties, I'd be a suboptimal cashier.
In an English-speaking environment, it's extremely important that the students use English as their primary language.

[Pyrodrew]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Roberto Clemente High School in Chicago had such a program centered around Puerto Rican culture, until the Chicago School Board discovered that some of the artists who had been brought in to give a lecture were hazily connected with the FLN (a Puerto Rican terrorist group which was broken in the early 80s--the "discovery" occured in the mid-90s), at which point they started screaming, "training for terrorists" and shut it down.

There were also programs from Mexican and Black students in other schools in Chicago. I know they had such programs in NYC, and I consider it rather unlikely they don't have similar programs in California. Nonetheless, we don't know the specifics about this particluar school system, so it's unwise to speculate either way.

First there's a big difference between ebonics (a small part of a culture) and a class for all of Puerto Rican, Mexican and Black culture.
Second, why have a class for ebonics when they could have a class for Black Culture like in Chicago?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Pyrodrew
Second, why have a class for ebonics when they could have a class for Black Culture like in Chicago?

That's an intelligent question. I don't have an answer for you. You'd need to ask the school district that.