just. plain. STUPID.

[DarkCloud]

I think that boris said it best:

What good is accomplished by allowing kids to grow up not being able to speak English properly? While it might assuage your cultural guilt, it actually destroys their lives and makes it impossible for them to find good employment. Why should your little social experiment be allowed to ruin people's futures?

And of course, why should a nation culture to a minority's culture- when you do that, you end up with Quebecois and Basque seperatists.

The more assimilation, the better. Long live America the melting pot where all cultures assimilate and contribute their ideas, but where everyone really is an American and grows to appreciate a common underlying culture.

[Last Conformist]

Why the hell do you call it "Ebonics", anyway?

Anyway, the important thing is that schools teach 'em to speak and write a good enough approximation of General American to not suffer language-related disadvantages in the job market. If the school feels like giving them texts in AAVE on top, so what?

[Saras]

Waste of time, money and focus?

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Saras
Waste of time, money and focus?

As opposed to Pledges of Allegiance, feel good sessions, women's studies, and other nonsense American schools indulge in?

[Saras]

These as well.

[St Leo]

Women's Studies is a legitimate university subject. It's not taught in high school AFAIK.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by St Leo
Women's Studies is a legitimate university subject.

That's the subject of some disagreement.

It's not taught in high school AFAIK.

I've heard it connection with American HS studies, but maybe that was just sloppy use of terminology.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Why the hell do you call it "Ebonics", anyway?

Ebony (black) + onics (phonics) ~ "black speech".

Anyway, the important thing is that schools teach 'em to speak and write a good enough approximation of General American to not suffer language-related disadvantages in the job market. If the school feels like giving them texts in AAVE on top, so what?

Exactly. Plus it gives those students a renewed sense of worth.

fro shizzle ma drizzle

Thats not Ebonics, thats something Snoop Dogg made up. You clearly don't know what Ebonics actually is, and certainly didn't read my post where I pointed out the fallacy of using that example. You can't expect to argue against me if you don't read what I write.

And of course, why should a nation culture to a minority's culture- when you do that, you end up with Quebecois and Basque seperatists.

Ok.

No, you're fooling yourself. If I need someone to communicate with the clientele and I have a choice between someone who can be understood and someone who can't, who do you think I'll choose?

I mean has Jimmy ever dialed a help line? You want someone who speaks clearly because there may be phrases or jargon that you just don't understand, and need in depth explinations of.

Of course we should all spend money teaching people how to learn a 'second language' to communicate with these ebonics-speakers. Of course we should cater to them. Of course we should let their preferences dictate American life.

Ok, this broken record business has got to stop. All three of the previous arguments suck. Why? Because they are based on the presupposition that Ebonics speakers cannot be understood by the masses. This is false. Therefore the rest of the logic simply does not compute.

Come on guys, I know we're sheltered here on Poly, but lets be serious for a minute. Are you really trying to tell me that you've never left your neighborhood, never been anywhere where people speak English differently than you? Its a great big world out there, guys. There's room enough for everyone.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
Ebony (black) + onics (phonics) ~ "black speech".

I'd say that's outrageously stupid, but then Bislama is named after an edible snail ...

[JimmyCracksCorn]

But lets recap for a minute. Here's where we're at.

Ebonics: Is a non-standard form of English which is perfectly intelligible to speakers of Standard English.

Poly says: Ebonics Why? Because no one can understand them, therefore they don't climb the social ladder. {Error: Does not compute}

But: People can understand Ebonics speakers. So whats the problem?

Answer: Unlike other white European dialects/accents/socio-lects of English, Ebonics is simply not respected.

Why: Systemic racism and prejudice.

JCC says:

Poly says:

[Imran Siddiqui]

Because they are based on the presupposition that Ebonics speakers cannot be understood by the masses.

Obviously it is different enough from standard English that it needs special classes.

There is a reason you are in a vast minority on this issue, not just on Poly, but in the country et large. Btw, they speak a different dialect in the South, but they don't teach them to SAY "y'all" in the English classes.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Moral of the story is: If blacks want to pursue Ebonics as a lingustic tool towards a culturally self determined future, you can't stop them.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And how many schools have "Ebonics" English classes?

And why does it need special classes if everyone can understand it already? Can't they learn it outside of school? Hell, I wonder if the South will have Southern dialect classes to learn the proper way to use "y'all" and "ain't". And maybe New York should have a dialect class ("fughetaboutit").

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
Moral of the story is: If blacks want to pursue Ebonics as a lingustic tool towards a culturally self determined future, you can't stop them.

Give me just one good reason why they should do such a stupid thing.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Answer: Unlike other white European dialects/accents/socio-lects of English, Ebonics is simply not respected.

Wow... Southern accents and Appalacian accents are 'respected' in other parts of the country? Don't think so. That accept seems to make people think 'redneck'.