Closed circuit cameras are watching you...

[Winston]

Of course they do, not "usually", always. Police are responsible for keeping order on the streets. Think about it for a moment. Assigning a different route for a protest march is not repression.

This is evolving into a threadjack though. Start a new one.

[Fake Boris]

Right you are. When the cameras and the technology are there, they'll draw the identity of every protester from the footage. Talk about keeping order.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Winston
People who practice and express their political views in a lawful and non-violent way are not being "repressed" today, why would they be in the future just because the camera technology evolves?

if all people throughout history acted in a lawful and non-violent way we would not have countries such as the United States of America. hint: this is a bad thing.

Civil disobedience is a good thing. It has helped with racial inequality in america.

[Az]

It could be argued that such a system will make it easier for a police state to gain power.

Man, I know you don't fully believe in this argument yourself, because of the way you worded it.

Sure, it "could be used"... but so is everything else about the government. Democracy and the rule of people isn't about the system of government, but about how jaded and cynical are the people about it - the less they are and the more they're planning to do about it, the longer will Democracy survive. Remember civics class? Formal democracy against the real one?

[Eli]

Originally posted by Kontiki
Obviously being a paranoid fascist, I'd use it to track down my enemys and slaughter them in a dark alleyway.

Seriously? Absolutely nothing unless a crime was committed and the footage could be used to help identify the criminal(s).

There is a lot of gray territorry between being a paranoid fascist and a pure democrat.

Say you're an elected president, running for reelection. Wont it be mighty nice to have a list of people who only now began going to rallies or conventions of the opposite party? Such people are on the brink of not voting for you, and now is exactly the time to give them a call or a visit by your activists and try to change their minds. And there you go, another 1% for the vote goes to you.
This is of course only one example.

Again, and also in response to Az's last post, I'm not arguing against the idea in it's entirety. Just keep in mind that it has enormous potential for abuse and that it should be considered on a much broader level than merely it's crime-fighting capabilities.

And as for civics class... Well, it bored the hell out of me(I blame the teacher, the material itself is fascinating) and I improvised through the final examination all the way to a shameful 60.

[MikeH]

England has 10 million CCTV cameras, 10% of the world total. At least half a million of those are in London. They aren't all government cameras though. But a proportion are, including the 7,000 on the tube and one or two on every bus. Not sure how many busses there are, enough to carry 5.3 million people a day.

Apparently Chicago has 2,250 government ones according to this article:

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20050518-115914-9317r.htm

ie.

London pwns Chicago.

[MikeH]

The investigation into the tube/bus bombers would have been progressing much, much slower if it wasn't for the CCTV footage.

[MikeH]

Then again, Greater London has 7.4 million people and Chicago under 3m.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Eli


There is a lot of gray territorry between being a paranoid fascist and a pure democrat.

Say you're an elected president, running for reelection. Wont it be mighty nice to have a list of people who only now began going to rallies or conventions of the opposite party? Such people are on the brink of not voting for you, and now is exactly the time to give them a call or a visit by your activists and try to change their minds. And there you go, another 1% for the vote goes to you.
This is of course only one example.

I don't know what to tell you, Eli. I'm sorry you're so paranoid that you'd use anything you possibly could to further your aims if you were in that position. You asked what I would do, and I told you. I think Az pretty much covered the rest.

[rah]

Originally posted by MikeH

Apparently Chicago has 2,250 government ones according to this article:

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20050518-115914-9317r.htm

ie.

London pwns Chicago.

That sounds about right for government ones but it may be a tad low depending on how dated the information is. That would be only a small percentage of them in Chicago since most are private security. But I'm sure there's nowhere near 500,000.

[Ben Kenobi]

I agree you don't have freedom of speech. Hate speech laws

yeah, sad thing we have more freedom in the city than we do on the universities.

Free speech in Canada.

[DanS]

Originally posted by MikeH
Then again, Greater London has 7.4 million people and Chicago under 3m.

FYI: Metro Chicago has 9.4 million people. Then again, it appears that the Washington Times really only references the city of Chicago proper, which is, as you say, less than 3 million.

[Snotty]

CCTV is Great. On underpasses, bicycles sheds, busy local roundabouts, parks, high streets and private homes . Each camera is like a little bubble of security

[St Leo]

Two cameras for every street;

Uh, streets are kinda big. Two cameras for every streetlight would make a lot more sense.

[DanS]

Thank god for CCTV!

Enumclaw-area animal-sex case investigated

By Jennifer Sullivan
Seattle Times staff reporter

King County sheriff's detectives are investigating the owners of an Enumclaw-area farm after a Seattle man died from injuries sustained while having sex with a horse boarded on the property.

Investigators first learned of the farm after the man died at Enumclaw Community Hospital July 2. The county Medical Examiner's Office ruled that the death was accidental and the result of having sex with a horse.

A surveillance camera picked up the license plate of the car that dropped the man off at the hospital, which led detectives to the farm and other people involved, said sheriff's Sgt. John Urquhart.

Deputies don't believe a crime occurred because bestiality is not illegal in Washington state and the horse was uninjured, said Urquhart.

But because investigators found chickens, goats and sheep on the property, they are looking into whether animal cruelty — which is a crime — was committed by having sex with these smaller, weaker animals, he said.

The farm was talked about in Internet chat rooms as a destination for people looking to have sex with livestock, he said.

"A significant number of people, we believe, have likely visited this farm," said Urquhart.

The Humane Society of the United States intends to use the case during the next state legislative session as an example of why sex with animals should be outlawed in Washington, said Bob Reder, a Humane Society regional director in Seattle.

"This and a few other cases that we have will allow us a platform to talk about sex abuse of animals," Reder said.

Thirty-three states ban sex with animals, he said.

Susan Michaels, co-founder of local animal-rights organization Pasado's Safe Haven, said she has been fighting to have bestiality made illegal. "It's animal cruelty behind closed doors," Michaels said.

Jennifer Sullivan: 206-464-8294 or jensullivan@seattletimes.com

The Associated Press contributed to this report.