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  • Female Anglican deacon rejects ordination



    Why men should head the Church

    Sacha Bonsor

    Former deacon Caroline Sandon puts the case against female bishops

    AFTER the Synod’s vote on Monday to remove the legal blocks to women becoming bishops, a quiet celebration is taking place among the Church’s female ranks. But, as a former deacon of St Andrew’s Church in Cambridge, I feel that the ordination of female bishops will destroy values that the institution to which I belong has spent 2,000 years establishing. The point about the Church is that it is like the family: it has a hierarchy — and women should not be at the head.

    I have enjoyed a quiet faith all of my life. One of my first memories is of my grandfather sitting beside my bed and reading a bedtime story from the Bible — not a task he took lightly. He would smooth out the pages so that they were flat and speak slowly and clearly, evidently lost in the words and stories that were so alive to him. I recall wanting whatever it was that he had.

    Unlike many of my peers, I took my confirmation, at the age of 13, very seriously. I was conscious that being a Christian was about more than going to church and I promised myself then that I would seek to live in accordance with what the Bible taught. But it never entered my head to become ordained. When I left school, I decided to become a teacher. Like my friends, I believed in and applauded female leadership in the workplace. I moved to Cambridge, where I taught as a secondary school teacher, and I planned to climb up the educational ladder.

    There was no defining moment at which I felt called to the Church, but when the Bible Club that I ran during lunch break was closed down by my teachers’ union, I realised that I far preferred teaching the Bible to algebra. After four years of contemplation and talking to friends, I applied for theological training at Wycliffe Hall in Oxford, aged 27. I was somewhat surprised to be accepted.

    When I started the three-year course in 1990, the only opportunity open to women was to be ordained as a deacon. Two years later, in November 1992, that all changed: the General Synod accepted the measure to ordain women as priests. I remember the day very clearly. A good friend said to me: “Carrie, I’ll be a bishop within 20 years.” She, like the majority of women in my year, saw the ordination of women priests as a stepping stone to something far greater.

    For me, the decision was very simple — I was as much opposed to the ordination of women priests then as I am opposed to the possibility of women bishops now.

    Old-fashioned as it may sound, it is my theological conviction that the ordination of women to the priesthood is wrong. There are various biblical passages that dictate my belief, the most significant of which is St Paul’s teachings in I Timothy where he does not allow women to teach or to have authority over men within the context of the Church.

    My critics argue that St Paul’s words, along with much of the Bible, should be reinterpreted according to our culture — women in his day were not as educated as they are today, for example — but I am as unconvinced by their argument as they are by mine. St Paul’s teachings are not based on the prevailing culture of his time but on the pattern of human relationships established at the Creation. Adam was formed first and then Eve.

    Just as the pattern of the Creation produced mother, father and child, so it should be echoed in the family of the Church. The father figure stands for leadership, the mother figure for nurture.

    In the Church, there is a variety of different roles that a woman can take on within the nurturing realm — as deacons, pastoral workers, youth or child workers — but by ordaining them to the role of the man, we are denying God’s children of the clear roles that the two sexes play in the developing process.

    Many see my views as a promotion of inequality, which I vehemently deny. Society seems determined to define equality by eradicating differences; the challenge for the Church is to model equality and diversity at the same time. It is perfectly possible to be equal but to have different functions. You do not say of a man, for example, that because he didn’t bear the child he is not equal to his wife. I have worked alongside men for 11 years and I do not see myself as “below” them or inferior to them — we both serve God in our different ways. Nor do I apply my belief to the private sector — I am in full support of female leaders outside the Church and the family.

    It is inevitable that, at some stage in the future, we will have a female Archbishop of Canterbury. It grieves me that women see serving the Church as a career with a glass ceiling. I see it differently. I am fulfilled by being able to offer something that a man does not have, just as he can offer what I lack. By making a stand, I worry that my peers’ desire for promotion has become more about status and prestige in the eyes of the world than it is about serving God.

    The ordination of the first female bishop will be a sad day for me. It will signify that the Church is once again moving away from what I understand to be the clear teaching of the Bible; it will undermine the richness of male and female diversity within the Church and it will limit our individuality. There will always be a range of different opinions depending on where one locates one’s authority.

    The strength and the weakness of the Church of England is that it strives to accommodate every view: by encouraging its followers to stick to their convictions, it ensures that there will always be division.
    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

  • #2
    she's entitled to her opinion, as wrong as it may be

    Comment


    • #3
      I think she makes a solid point, that there are differences between men and women, and that one can be different in function, yet equal in value.

      Why do you think she is wrong?
      Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
      "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
      2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

      Comment


      • #4
        On a scale from one to wrong, she would be very much at the wrong end.
        "Remember, there's good stuff in American culture, too. It's just that by "good stuff" we mean "attacking the French," and Germany's been doing that for ages now, so, well, where does that leave us?" - Elok

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
          I think she makes a solid point, that there are differences between men and women, and that one can be different in function, yet equal in value.

          Why do you think she is wrong?
          She never explains why a woman couldn't fulfill the work of a bishop. Her vague attempt at justification is to explain that in the general view (including her own), men are associated with leadership while women are associated with nurture. She doesn't explain what makes this prejudice true
          "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
          "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
          "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

          Comment


          • #6
            Her argument is weak (nonexistant).

            "Former deacon"

            Did she resign a post of some sort over this?
            "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
            "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

            Comment


            • #7
              Apparently so, and I don't blame her from doing that. The famous Anglican 'tolerance' doesn't seem so hot when you are against where the church is headed.
              Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
              "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
              2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

              Comment


              • #8
                Yeah, she does seem pretty intolerant to other viewpoints. Good poiont Ben

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                  Apparently so, and I don't blame her from doing that. The famous Anglican 'tolerance' doesn't seem so hot when you are against where the church is headed.
                  What opponents of "tolerance" like to point out is how the tolerant are not tolerant of the intolerant. These opponents are only kidding themselves. Intolerance must not be tolerated by the tolerant for the term to actually mean anything.
                  "Remember, there's good stuff in American culture, too. It's just that by "good stuff" we mean "attacking the French," and Germany's been doing that for ages now, so, well, where does that leave us?" - Elok

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    She never explains why a woman couldn't fulfill the work of a bishop. Her vague attempt at justification is to explain that in the general view (including her own), men are associated with leadership while women are associated with nurture. She doesn't explain what makes this prejudice true.
                    You've missed the point. The point is not could a woman be a bishop, the question is should a woman be a bishop. She tackles the argument that St. Paul's letter to Timothy ought to be rejected, since our culture is different from the culture then, but then she goes on to make her point that women and men do not fulfill the same role.

                    The part that I bolded, is where I think she makes the strongest argument. To say that equality in value requires one to be equal in function is a horrible kind of equality. It's like in Harrison Bergeron, where everyone needs to be brought down to the same level, so that everyone can be truly equal in function.
                    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Intolerance must not be tolerated by the tolerant for the term to actually mean anything.
                      Thank you! So 'tolerance' simply means that you tolerate those who agree with you.
                      Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                      "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                      2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        im confused ben, arent you a former Mennonite turned RC? Shouldnt it be up to anglicans to determine what the proper Anglican way to interprate a disputed biblical text is?

                        Are you know going to start discussing the question of female ordination of rabbis? Whether women should be counted in a minyan? Patrilineal descent? The status of electricity on shabbas? Whether or not swordfish are kosher?

                        Really. We all have different ways of approaching texts - different religions do, and IIUC the different christian denominations do. Does it make sense to have a broad discussion of each faiths issues on textual interpretation and religious change, or is it merely an invitation to express general cultural religious biases?
                        "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Whether or not swordfish are kosher?


                          Pardon my ignorance. Is there really such a debate?
                          "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                          "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ben, if a woman believed her calling was to be a bishop, would it be appropriate for her to undergo a sex change operation to fulfill her purpose?
                            meet the new boss, same as the old boss

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


                              The part that I bolded, is where I think she makes the strongest argument. To say that equality in value requires one to be equal in function is a horrible kind of equality. It's like in Harrison Bergeron, where everyone needs to be brought down to the same level, so that everyone can be truly equal in function.
                              are you perhaps getting overly philisophical? I cant speak to the proper interpretation of the words of Saul-Paul, or the proper quals for the rank of bishop. I can give you something illuminating from the discussion of the ordination of women in Cons Judaism. The Conservative Committee on Jewish Law and Standards did NOT declare a blanket gender equality across all areas of Jewish law. Blanket statements tend to mess up established areas of law unintentionally. (In particular the CJLS has insisted on maintaining the matrilineal standard of Jewish descent) However they faced a real issue. At a time when there was strong need for more quality rabbis, half of the jewish people were excluded from the rabbinate. Young Jewish women needed role models, and the most intensely Jewish were turning away from normative Judaism for want of female rabbinic leadership. This established the need for change, and NOT a theoretical commitment to equality. The next step was to determine if the law allowed for change. They concluded that it does, using a legal loophole. Women were excluded from the rabbinate on the grounds that they were not subject to time bound positive commandments (for ex the duty to pray 3 times day - on the grounds that motherhood could make this impossible) The rabbis did NOT say that all women were so bound - however they said that individual women COULD choose to accept the full obligation of all the commandments - and those who did so would then be eligible for the rabbinate.

                              The result has been, among other things, to revive interest among Consverative Jews in such declining areas of observance as the ritual bath for women - something that would likely have been impossible in a non-Orthodox community without women rabbis. I can only say its worked out well, and many of the segments of the C rabbinate that were most opposed have gotten on board.

                              Of course, YMMV.
                              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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