What the heck is this crap?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn


Interesting coming from someone who agreed with most of the points I made in the OP.

Not as interesting as your responses have been, little one...

[JimmyCracksCorn]

You are the anti-Chuckman. Both of you are distorting reality to suit your own ideological ends, but you approach it in different ways. He calls down the US in comparison to his new found ****-don't-stink land, while you call down your new home to make it stink as much as the swamp you think you left behind. Same ****. Different reaction.

You're cute. I missed this bit.

Stick a fork in yourself, NYE. I think you're done.

[KrazyHorse]

And not "most" of your points.

"A number" of them.

Namely the ones about points of fact.

Not the ones which draw conclusions about national attitude.

As has been so aptly demonstrated in this thread, on that you are clueless.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Not as interesting as your responses have been, little one...

Such as...? Everything I've said has been a simple reiteration of what I said in the OP.

[KrazyHorse]

Simple, yes.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

As has been so aptly demonstrated in this thread, on that you are clueless.

Like what? I made my position known, and you have every right to disagree with me.

But since I started this thread, the burden of proof is on you to prove me wrong.

You haven't done this yet.

[Imran Siddiqui]

1812 is a funny war... one of the few where both sides think they one. The Canadians (or British) thinking they pushed the smarmy Yanks back from gaining more property and the Americans who consider the war their Second War for Independance, where they were able to get the Brits to stop impressment and pull British troops from the Ohio River Valley.

Though I guess that is what happens when you have a draw.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Simple, yes.

Which is why I find it so amazing that neither you or NYE fully understand them.

Disagree with me, fine. But the character bashing has you and NYE constantly on the defensive.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn


You answer yes or no, but nice attempt to evade the questions.

I don't march 'cause you say so massah!

Ok, why does his nationality matter again?

It matters because your whole rant rests on Canadians feel this way and how dare they?

When it is pointed out that it wasn't a Canadian, and we don't feel the way you think we do, you don't say 'damn' and call it a day, you launch further into your invective.

Well guess what? You've been wrong since post one, and I await any attempt you may bring to prove that Canadians are ignorant of or don't care about what happened to the Japanese, Chinese, Indians (from both continents) or just about any other cause you could bring. Fer Christs sake, we even feel guilty about the penguins! But not the seals. Thems deserves whats they getsess.

Oh, so Canadians never compare themselves favorably to the US?

Of course we do. Don't be silly! Just like the French and English, the Dutch and belgians, the Germans and... everyone.

The point is not to get trolled. You've been trolled, my freind. Big time.

Chuckman's article doesn't sound familiar at all? What rock have you been living under?

Yes it did sound familiar. It struck an immediate chord of Yank biting Yank. How do you think I knew to go looking for the fact that Chuckman is from the South Side of Chicago?

Every point in the OP I made I still stand by... the fact that you think my argument regarded the nationality of the author doesn't say much for your comprehension skills.

Again, re-read the thread. As it stands you're putting words into my mouth and in the process sticking your own foot down yours.

I'll let other people be the judge of that. I haven't even begun to take apart your OP. I have been hoping you would be man enough to say 'oops', but apparently not.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
1812 is a funny war... one of the few where both sides think they one. The Canadians (or British) thinking they pushed the smarmy Yanks back from gaining more property and the Americans who consider the war their Second War for Independance, where they were able to get the Brits to stop impressment and pull British troops from the Ohio River Valley.

Though I guess that is what happens when you have a draw.

For us it's that many Canadians pulled together and by force of arms resisted Republicanism.

It is our War of Independence, or as close as we ever had to come to one.

[Imran Siddiqui]

It is our War of Independence, or as close as we ever had to come to one.

I think the last part of the sentance is key . Because at the end of the war, it was still British territory, so not really a traditional War of Independence, where the victor gets to go on free from burden from the mother country.

[KrazyHorse]

Let's summarise this thread, from the time Jimmy leaves the US to the present moment:

Jimmy immigrates to Canada. This leaves him feeling slightly traitorous, although he can at least pacify himself with the knowledge that Canada is barely a sovereign nation, and envies the US greatly.

Jimmy spends the next 5 years finding out that Canadians do not envy the US, and have a slightly different version of the war of 1812.

GW wins the 2001 elections. Canadians are, understandably, tickled pink that Americans would do something that stupid to themselves. Jimmy grows annoyed at what he views as Canada's smug sense of superiority, further fueling his inferiority complex.

GW continues his muddleheaded presidency. Canada pretends not to be home when he calls concerning possible Canadian involvement in Iraq. He's confused by Chrétien's bilingual doublespeak on the answering machine, and leaves a poorly worded message about liking maple syrup. Jimmy is hotly embarrassed when Lloyd Roberts plays the tape on the air the next day. He starts his Tim Horton voodoo doll. Tim, having been dead for 30 years, is none the worse for wear. Jimmy is infuriated at his own impotence.

GW is reelected. Canadians feel that the joke is wearing a bit thin, and start to feel sorry for their benighted southern neighbours. Jimmy is driven into a frenzy. In his heart he agrees with them, but pride ties a knot in his stomach.

Jimmy wakes up in the morning and decides to peruse CounterPunch as a reliable source of news and views (?)

Jimmy reads an article by an expat (?) American excoriating the US and sucking Canada's dick. Jimmy decides that this is indicative of the average Canadian's ignorance of historical fact and tendency toward jingoism.

Jimmy posts thread lambasting Canadians for being ignorant, chauvinist nationalists.

It is quickly pointed out to him that the author of the article is American, and that the average Canadian is, in fact, well aware of his country's faults.

Jimmy spins off into madness brought on by once more having been pwn3d by a mere Canuck.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

It is our War of Independence, or as close as we ever had to come to one.

I think the last part of the sentance is key . Because at the end of the war, it was still British territory, so not really a traditional War of Independence, where the victor gets to go on free from burden from the mother country.

But you don't understand.

The British tradition is to discuss these things amongst ourselves and settle them peacefully when they are finally settled.

Arms against the Crown or the state are severely frowned upon.

As it happens it took just 90 more years for us to gain our statehood, but we did it peacefully and maintained relations with the mother country. Australia, New Zealand, and others then followed our example.

We Canucks today up here do not begrudge you Yanks the road you took. Our ancestors simply disagreed about the methods used to get there. We have all arrived at the same place.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Well guess what? You've been wrong since post one, and I await any attempt you may bring to prove that Canadians are ignorant of or don't care about what happened to the Japanese, Chinese, Indians (from both continents) or just about any other cause you could bring. Fer Christs sake, we even feel guilty about the penguins! But not the seals. Thems deserves whats they getsess.

Again, putting words into my mouth. I never said Canadians didn't care, I said they're still far too complacent as regards their history, especially the not so flattering parts - just like every other country!

I'll let other people be the judge of that. I haven't even begun to take apart your OP. I have been hoping you would be man enough to say 'oops', but apparently not.

Maybe that would have been a good place for you to have started. Please, tear apart my OP. Thats what these threads are for. Intelligent debate, not you making assumptions about my character or bashing my nationality.

So lets make up and start over. My argument is:

-Everything from the OP

and

-That I don't believe (as in, my opinion) that enough is being done to educate people about wrongful state actions of the past - in Canada and everywhere else.

You say: That enough is being done in these regards? No further action is necessary?

- I also say that the views in Chuckman's article are typical of Canadian pop-mythology.

You say: It isn't.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
Like what? I made my position known, and you have every right to disagree with me.

As NYE said, you're fading quickly into relativism here.

"I've been wrecked on any objective measure of this argument, so I'll just say that I have a right to my opinion"