My dad just bought an iPod Mini...

[Whaleboy]

I got my iPod Mini over the w/end and so far I love it! iTunes can convert WMA to AAC but tbh I don't really care, the thing's just... wow!

[Agathon]

Um... AAC is not owned by Apple. It is owned by the same people that own mp3 IIRC. I don't think that there's any difference in the licensing scheme for either, although I may well be wrong.

Microsoft is basically giving away WMA so that they can establish control over digital audio and then screw people while doing little or nothing to improve it (IE anyone?).

The only thing Apple owns is Fairplay: their DRM for the iTunes Music Store. Fairplay applies only to files that are purchased from the store. That is a lock-in.

Everything else is open to be used by whomever. You can buy an iPod and use other software if you don't like iTunes (there are heaps of alternatives). You can play pretty much what you like, as long as it does not use Microsoft's proprietary standards.

If Microsoft want WMA to become a standard, they can pay Apple to include it with iTunes and iPod. That would guarantee it becoming a standard. They probably have the money to do it too.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
I got my iPod Mini over the w/end and so far I love it! iTunes can convert WMA to AAC but tbh I don't really care, the thing's just... wow!

Update all your software and try the new podcasting feature. They're adding them all the time and some are quite good.

[Fake Boris]

Ogg support is not perfect, but it's not inexistent. iRiver players support it, and so did my RioVolt back in the time.

For me, "supporting" Ogg is only a case of buying a player that works with it.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
Um... AAC is not owned by Apple. It is owned by the same people that own mp3 IIRC. I don't think that there's any difference in the licensing scheme for either, although I may well be wrong.

AAC costs significantly more than MP3 to license.

Microsoft is basically giving away WMA so that they can establish control over digital audio and then screw people while doing little or nothing to improve it (IE anyone?).

WMA has a licensing cost. WMA costs about the same as MP3, IIRC. AAC costs more.

The only thing Apple owns is Fairplay: their DRM for the iTunes Music Store. Fairplay applies only to files that are purchased from the store. That is a lock-in.

Everything else is open to be used by whomever. You can buy an iPod and use other software if you don't like iTunes (there are heaps of alternatives). You can play pretty much what you like, as long as it does not use Microsoft's proprietary standards.

And instead uses other proprietary standards, that cost a lot more and have more limited technology...and locks you into Apple's proprietary store and DRM that they refuse to let anyone else use...

If Microsoft want WMA to become a standard, they can pay Apple to include it with iTunes and iPod. That would guarantee it becoming a standard. They probably have the money to do it too.

Microsoft doesn't have to do anything.

Apple's vendor lockin will kill its digital media market, just like it killed its desktop market. Give time for the market to mature, and people begin to question why Apple needs to make all their decisions for them...

It's the overpriced proprietary vendor-lockin model (Mac) vs the "free" market (PC) all over again.

[Atahualpa]

Originally posted by Agathon
Um... AAC is not owned by Apple. It is owned by the same people that own mp3 IIRC. I don't think that there's any difference in the licensing scheme for either, although I may well be wrong.

Microsoft is basically giving away WMA so that they can establish control over digital audio and then screw people while doing little or nothing to improve it (IE anyone?).

The only thing Apple owns is Fairplay: their DRM for the iTunes Music Store. Fairplay applies only to files that are purchased from the store. That is a lock-in.

Everything else is open to be used by whomever. You can buy an iPod and use other software if you don't like iTunes (there are heaps of alternatives). You can play pretty much what you like, as long as it does not use Microsoft's proprietary standards.

It's irrelevant who invented AAC and even if it was Fraunhofer, it has the "DRM virus" in it.
And I don't care wether iTunes only applies DRM to music from the store... sure you need not use it, but like with anything optional but more convenient, it's a creepy thing and it keeps creeping in.

Unfortunately ofc, that makes it different to argument against it in public, since obviously it's the people's will, as they have other choices and possibilities, but use these instead. Still, probably a philosophical question, but when you count with the lazyness of people to bring them somewhere that you like them to be, is it really the people's will? Or is it more like a giant sheep herd and the die-hard sheeps either in the end have to "die" or follow.

But anyway, DRM cannot work and it will always be possible to break it somehow. It cannot work because of the simple reasons outlined by someone already: 1. You have to have the decryption key, 2. You have to have the decryption algorithm and 3. You have to obtain the plain text
You are the pirate and the consumer at the same time, what DRM is trying to do is protecing you from yourself. Thx!

Ofc, what it can do is make it a pain in the ass for everyone.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Atahualpa
It's irrelevant who invented AAC and even if it was Fraunhofer, it has the "DRM virus" in it.
And I don't care wether iTunes only applies DRM to music from the store... sure you need not use it, but like with anything optional but more convenient, it's a creepy thing and it keeps creeping in.

Unfortunately ofc, that makes it different to argument against it in public, since obviously it's the people's will, as they have other choices and possibilities, but use these instead. Still, probably a philosophical question, but when you count with the lazyness of people to bring them somewhere that you like them to be, is it really the people's will? Or is it more like a giant sheep herd and the die-hard sheeps either in the end have to "die" or follow.

But anyway, DRM cannot work and it will always be possible to break it somehow. It cannot work because of the simple reasons outlined by someone already: 1. You have to have the decryption key, 2. You have to have the decryption algorithm and 3. You have to obtain the plain text
You are the pirate and the consumer at the same time, what DRM is trying to do is protecing you from yourself. Thx!

Ofc, what it can do is make it a pain in the ass for everyone.

If DRM can never work, what's the problem.

It'll work well enough to stop the casual users from pirating, and that's what it's for.

[Atahualpa]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Ogg support is not perfect, but it's not inexistent. iRiver players support it, and so did my RioVolt back in the time.

For me, "supporting" Ogg is only a case of buying a player that works with it.

Yeah I know, that's why I said virtually non-existant (and to my knowledge of the english language this means "almost"). And unfortunately it's far away from perfect.. iRiver is the only company that supports them no?
And more if you have your whole music library in OGG, you are limiting yourself totally to the available players as you can only buy iRiver. Why do you want to do that?

[Atahualpa]

Originally posted by Asher


If DRM can never work, what's the problem.

It'll work well enough to stop the casual users from pirating, and that's what it's for.

the problem is in the last line (of my post)
Why do you think WEP is still better than nothing at all? Because it's more a pain in the ass to decrypt than just hook yourself on the network. And whom does WEP stop? The curious mostly harmless people and whom does it not stop? The dangerous people with bad intentions in the first place.

The same with DRM. It will be a pain in the ass for those with no bad intentions in the first place, while the real bad guys don't care as they know how to crack it.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Agathon
Anyway, if Asher's father had kept his iPod he could be listening to free podcasts right now. I'm listening to the CBC's Quirks and Quarks.

That's the sort of thing that I would love to keep up with, but could never get organized. Now it downloads automagically.

This is what I love about Poly.: hearing about stuff I didn't know about. I just downloaded the podcasting for Q & Q, one of the many things I miss from Canada.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Asher
Choice is good.

why is why intel should not force pc manufacturers into going exclusive, right

[Asher]

Originally posted by MarkG
why is why intel should not force pc manufacturers into going exclusive, right

There are many compatible PC manufacturers out there.

The analogy would be correct if Intel deliberately made its chips incompatible with AMD chips...

[Atahualpa]

Originally posted by Asher

There are many compatible PC manufacturers out there.

The analogy would be correct if Intel deliberately made its chips incompatible with AMD chips...

There are accusations that they put AMD detection and degraded performance in their compiler suit.
Btw, which other CPU vendor sells x86 CPUs?
Transmeta?

[Asher]

Via

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Asher
There are many compatible PC manufacturers out there.

but if you get the 4-5 who control the market you dont need the rest
(actually MS also has most of the rest in exclusive contracts as well)