Tom Cruise, psychiatry, Matt Drudge, etc.

[JohnT]

i don't know why you are stuck on this..

Emp Fab is an actor. He is taking your argument personally.

I am a white male straight Republican. Hanging around here, we develop much tougher skins.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by JohnT

i don't know why you are stuck on this..

Emp Fab is an actor. He is taking your argument personally.

Sorry, 5/7 people I lived with my Sophomore year at Ursinus felt this way and would always make it a point to yell at me whenever an actor was on TV making a statement.

I still have nightmares

I am a white male straight Republican. Hanging around here, we develop much tougher skins.

Moisturizer helps that, I hear

[Ultraviolet]

Tom Cruise is a scientologist? God help us...

Who's going to be next? George Bush?

[The Emperor Fabulous]

[Brundlefly]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Its a helluva lot better to be absorbed in the fact that you have depression, than to be absorbed in the fact that youre a total fVck up, that the world is evil, and that theres really no alternative to suicide. And of course a good therapist (who need not be shrink, but should work with a shrink) WILL try to get you focused on recovering, not on "wallowing".

Mental Health professionals have a major conflict of interest in their profession. If they help you get better, they have lost a source of revenue. It's better for them financially to keep you 80-90 % cured perpetually..

I spent the 90's in and out of therapy, most of the time conducted while I was advised to take the new hot antidepressant of the year.. Most of the drugs never did anything for me except put me in a perpetual "comfortably numb" state of mind. The ones that actually seemed to elevate my mood significantly made my dick soft. In fact, all anti-depressants will make you soft to varying degrees if you are a guy. They suppress your spontaneatity, your aggression, your vitality.. Psychiatrists really dont care about this quality of life aspect of tratment - clinically you are not depressed so they feel they are doing their job..

I had 3 or 4 fall asleep on me during sessions. Others barely said a word during sessions - they only listened and rarely gave feedback..

Bottom line - I only got better when I decided to stop relying on psych drugs as a panacea -just stopped taking them at all- and took responsibility for my situation and consequences of my actions rather than waiting for some epiphany to come during sessions with unmotivated mental health practitioners..

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by bfg9000


"Mental Health professionals have a major conflict of interest in their profession. If they help you get better, they have lost a source of revenue. It's better for them financially to keep you 80-90 % cured perpetually.."

I can tell you with absolute certainty that there are some who will suggest that you step back your number of appointments, and will be supportive of you leaving therapy. Perhaps going to ones who work for an agency, a non-profit at that, makes the difference.


"I spent the 90's in and out of therapy, most of the time conducted while I was advised to take the new hot antidepressant of the year.. Most of the drugs never did anything for me except put me in a perpetual "comfortably numb" state of mind. "

They DONT work for everyone.


"The ones that actually seemed to elevate my mood significantly made my dick soft. In fact, all anti-depressants will make you soft to varying degrees if you are a guy. "

I can also tell you, with absolute certainty, that this is NOT true for everyone. Side effects vary with the individual - this one certainly does.

I can also say, that some people at the bottom of a depression, this is profoundly irrelevant anyway.


" They suppress your spontaneatity, your aggression, your vitality"

I can also say, that for some, the opposite is true.

" Psychiatrists really dont care about this quality of life aspect of tratment - clinically you are not depressed so they feel they are doing their job.. "

I would suggest that its better to work with a social worker on quality of life issues. Though I certainly know of shrinks who are concerned about side effects, etc.




"Bottom line - I only got better when I decided to stop relying on psych drugs as a panacea and took responsibility for my situation and consequences of my actions"

But thats what GOOD therapy should be pushing you towards.

" rather than waiting for some ephipany to come during sessions with unmotivated mental health practitioners.. "

increases my appreciation for a certain rare gem. although ive met others who are competent and motivated, if not as insightful.

[Brundlefly]

And regarding Tom Cruise, who cares? Matt Lauer, Tom Cruise they are both fake. They orchestrate these dramas so that they can charge higher advertising rates for the Today show. Or so that you'll rent a Tom Cruise movie next time you are at Blockbuster. Or to revive Katie Holmes floundering career. Why does anyone buy in to this BS? The people who hang on the outcome of these BS dramas in TV land have nothing exciting going on in their own life .

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by JohnT
Scientology's Core Beliefs

No, you are not being wooshed.

That's for real?

I thought Ol' Hub was supposed to've been a decent SF writer before he decided on messiahhood, but that's pure space opera silliness. You're just surprised Flash Gordon didn't turn up to save the day.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Well, that's the literal interpretation. There's a load of weird stuff in the Bible (of course, not really sci-fi).

A more figurative interpretation could be that you have to exorcise the "demons" within you (Scientology, they claim, will help you do that, as opposed to, say, psychiatry).

Of course, that doesn't mean it isn't rediculous.

[JohnT]

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_134.html

Dear Cecil:

What's the poop on this Dianetics stuff? Is it a religion, a life-view, or another P.T. Barnum scam? L. Ron Hubbard's ads make it sound like the best thing for humanity since cable TV. However, all these years of reading your column have made us skeptical. Is it worth wasting our time and money on this stuff, or is it just more garbage from money-grubbing con artists? --Rob and Junior, Los Angeles

Cecil replies:

Let's put it this way: Cecil wouldn't waste his time and money. But what the hell, some people pay to get beaten with canes. Maybe you'd get a kick out of Dianetics, more commonly known in its religious incarnation, Scientology. The teachings of the late L. Ron Hubbard (he died in 1986) have been described as "the poor man's psychoanalysis." There are those who believe this means that if you're not poor when you start, you will be by the time you're done. It takes thousands of dollars' worth of training sessions to achieve "clear," the Scientological equivalent of enlightenment, and there have been repeated claims that the whole thing is a just a hugely profitable scam. Scam or not, it's definitely huge. At its peak the cult was reportedly taking in $100 million a year, and in 1986 was said to have assets of $280 million.

The evidence suggests Hubbard was sincere in his beliefs, at least at the outset. Originally a writer of hack science fiction, in 1950 he published Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health. The book argued that the brain was analogous to a computer with two independent memory banks, the Analytical (conscious) Mind and the Reactive (subconscious) Mind. The latter is full of "engrams" (traumatic memories), which interfere with the operation of the Analytical Mind and cause personality problems and ailments such as asthma and arthritis.

During "auditing" (therapy), the "pre-clear" (patient) can "run" (relive) and thus conquer the traumatic experiences. Once "clear," the patient would have super powers: total recall, high IQ, perfect health, and for all I know X-ray vision. Except for the inflated payoff, the parallels to Freudian analysis are obvious, including the high hourly fees you later had to pay to learn this stuff at Scientology centers.

Dianetics inspired a brief vogue for kitchen-table auditing. But the medical establishment condemned it and many early enthusiasts became disillusioned when they didn't get results. Undiscouraged, Hubbard repackaged Dianetics a few years later as a religion called Scientology, throwing in some new elements of Eastern mysticism. He now argued that we are all "thetans," or immortal spirits. Through auditing we can explore previous lives (74 trillion years' worth), free our inner being, and gain control over the material world. A key element in this is the "E-meter," a biofeedback device consisting of a galvanometer, some wires, and two soup cans.

By establishing a religion Hubbard was able to set himself up as a font of revelation rather than a scientist and thus control the movement. He also hoped to deflect outside criticism and indeed might have succeeded in doing so had it not been for his own implacable paranoia. He established thought police, conducted purges, and declared his critics "fair game," who "may be deprived of property or injured [or] tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed."

As a result of such threats, Scientology has been frequently investigated and sometimes banned in different countries. The FDA even tried (in vain) to ban the E-meter, claiming it was a quack medical device. Ron's attempts to fight back made things worse. In 1979, for example, his wife and ten other Scientologists were convicted of burglarizing and wiretapping government offices.

Even Cecil has been the target of the Scientologists' wrath. Not long after my column on Scientology was published in the newspapers, I got a call from a radio show producer asking me to answer questions from listeners on the air. This happens fairly often and I didn't give the timing much thought. When the first called lambasted me for dissing L. Ron, I started to get suspicious, and when every caller for the next half hour did the same I knew I'd been set up. Not that they laid a finger on me argument-wise. But swatting mosquitoes for 30 minutes isn't my idea of fun.

In 1984 several former Scientology officials claimed Hubbard told them to divert $100 million of church funds into foreign bank accounts. The church denied any wrongdoing, but you see the pattern. Whatever may be said for Scientology as a philosophy (and there are those who say it has helped them), its record as an organization is one of unmitigated sleaze. Get mixed up with these people at your peril.

--CECIL ADAMS

[Ecthy]

There was a time when I took medication, about 9 months from summer to spring of the successive year.

I can't really remember how I felt during the time before that, all I know is I had split up with all of my social life a year earlier, had found "new friends" which didn't help me either. At some point I found myself in a suicidal situation, and later I realised there was no way for me to get out of my negative thinking pattern than through a leap out of the circle.

Soon after the treatment began in August of 2003 I met a girl which I got together with. I continued treatment for some time, don't really know why but I think the doctor advised not to stop all too early, so it lasted until May. I didn't really feel different when I was off it so I just went on. Half a year later my relationship ended and I fell into a very confused mood that has lasted until now, 6 months after we split up.

Two things I have noticed:

1. I'm once again feeling negative, being unable to accept people, being in bad mood all the time, offensive and all. Even when in groups of people I cant enjoy social contact because it just makes me feel bad to see others having fun which I supposedly can't share. But that's bull****, since it's just in my attitude, so that's the devil's circle again. I felt like this when I decided to get medication, just worse.

2. I might have been more dependent on the effexor than I had thought. The relationship did begin to worsen some time after I jumped off it, so the past year since I ended medication might have had been harder under the surface than I have admitted t myself. Then again the real girl trouble only began in late summer, so that's months from the last happy pill. And I've only been feeling weird like this for a week now. In between (since break up) my social life was weird, but until a few weeks ago I felt like I had managed to improve, with moving, doing sports, improving nutrition and all. Interestingly to me it seems like being in the sun makes me feel worse not better.

Just my peronal experiences with the stuff mentioned earlier in this thread. Should I get back in treatment, this time combined? Last time was medication only, and a small dose and it was fine...

[DanS]

I thought Ol' Hub was supposed to've been a decent SF writer before he decided on messiahhood

Apparently, you haven't read anything of his. Unfortunately, I have read quite a bit of his work. It's just really, really bad.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous
Well, that's the literal interpretation. There's a load of weird stuff in the Bible (of course, not really sci-fi).

The Bible contains plenty of ridiculous stuff - there's a reason the sane(r) part of Christianity interprets Genesis figuratively - but I can't think of anything that would have appeared as pulp fiction to contemporaries.

(Incidentally, do Biblical literalists take literally the bits in the Song of Songs about bossoms that are like Mt Carmel? )

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by DanS


Apparently, you haven't read anything of his. Unfortunately, I have read quite a bit of his work. It's just really, really bad.

No, I've not read any of his, but I was of the impression he was considered a decent author.

This was no doubt due to insidious Scientologist propaganda.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

The Bible contains plenty of ridiculous stuff - there's a reason the sane(r) part of Christianity interprets Genesis figuratively - but I can't think of anything that would have appeared as pulp fiction to contemporaries.

(Incidentally, do Biblical literalists take literally the bits in the Song of Songs about bossoms that are like Mt Carmel? )

and neck like a tower of David????

Rabbinic commentators never referred to a literal form of interpretation, but rather to Pshat, direct interpretation - which allows for ordinary metaphor - to be distinguished from drash - hyperliteral (IE one that finds meaning in the smallest things, even an odd grammatical particle), allegorical meaning, and mystical meaning.

and hey wait a minute - that was twin fawns of a gazelle, not Mt Carmel