China is teh evil, OMFG!111!@

[Lefty Scaevola]

I had noticed months earlier that you were real chummy and smoozee with the capitalists moderators as well, despite you idology which should noramlly cause you to oppsed everything they post. I see a clear pattern.

[chequita guevara]

Deference to authority.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Tingkai
There is the Anti-China crowd, and then there are the racists like Mindseye. He's constantly complaining that them Chinese just care about money and nothing else. For example, in another thread he wrote: "In mainland Chinese culture, personal profit takes primacy over public welfare. There really is no question on the matter."

Change Chinese to Jewish and he would sound like a typical anti-semitic.

Pre-modern Jews were not particularly public minded (for the most part) since they were a tiny minority excluded from citizenship. Money was tied to survival. I can well see where the same would be true for overseas Chinese in Southeast Asia, etc. Indeed there are many striking parallels. And, AFAICT, Chinese in the US (and i presume Canada, Oz, etc) have followed the paths of Jews in the US and other Western democracies, of becoming quite public spirited.

Now the question of Chinese IN China is something else - and would have to be related to the nature of Chinese state - 1900 years of more or less rigid Confucianism, rule by a scholar elite, followed by decades of disorder, Communist brutality, and then an authoritarian regime following a mix of socialism, capitalism, and xenophobic nationalism. I would be sympathetic to a citizenry that has failed to develop public spiritedness under those conditions - public spiritedness is largely the result of a politys nature, and its historical condition - Jews IN Israel, forex, are highly public spirited, but that is a result both of Israels democratic (previously Social Democratic) polity, and its historical situation, so different from China's.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Timexwatch


I've also heard that same sentiment expressed from someone whose mother is Chinese and who has lived in China. It's one of those cultural generalizations, like "The French are arrogant" and that "Americans are reckless cowboys". Generalizations about a national character sometimes happen.

That's doesn't make it any less of a stereotype. It doesn't make it valid. It's a stereotype. It's prejudice. It's BS.

[GePap]

Maybe the statements by the Chinese leadership that getting rich is glorious have slowly seeped down all of society?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Pre-modern Jews were not particularly public minded (for the most part) since they were a tiny minority excluded from citizenship.

There is ample evidence of Jewish people being public minded, but in the past, in some countries, they were prevented from doing things for the public as a whole and instead were confined to doing things within their own community. Just because they were not allowed to be charitable for the general populace doesn't mean they were selfish.

Originally posted by lord of the mark
I would be sympathetic to a citizenry that has failed to develop public spiritedness under those conditions - public spiritedness is largely the result of a politys nature, and its historical condition

There are millions of Chinese who choose public service over chasing money: doctors, teachers, police, etc.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Tingkai
There are millions of Chinese who choose public service over chasing money: doctors, teachers, police, etc.

You're killing your case. These are some of the most corrupt offices in China. Its common that doctors refuse to treat patients until they've paid. I can't tell you how many teachers here that I've heard loathe their students. For them it a job they felt they were tricked into. And the police. There are rumors of there being good cops, but they were simply bribe by the just side. None of these are considered public service in China, but instead jobs that can be abused to gain more wealth. Although there are some good people in these professions, but to call them charitable in China is a farce.

I will say one thing about Chinese generosity that I feel has been overlooked. If you are a good friend or a family member, you can expect to be well taken care of. My Chinese friends will often do more for me than many of my western friends.

[DaShi]

Anyway, Tingkai calls anyone who he's incapable of debating a racist.

[Spiffor]

What you say is a broad generalization and stereotypisation though. It seriously reminds me of Cali's way of argumenting.

[Az]

yeah, I don't like that either. One could and should be able to talk freely about the nature of a society in general, i.e. "in chinese society, eating babies is considered the norm"

[mindseye]

Originally posted by Tingkai

There is the Anti-China crowd, and then there are the racists like Mindseye. He's constantly complaining that them Chinese just care about money and nothing else. For example, in another thread he wrote: "In mainland Chinese culture, personal profit takes primacy over public welfare. There really is no question on the matter."

I guess Lu Xun must also be a racist, he wrote on the very same topic. I believe he called it a "cultural defect", one of Chinese culture's biggest problems. That racist, Lu Xun!

Racism occurs when you falsely associate negative attributes to an entire race. When I write here at 'Poly, I usually try to provide examples to back up my assertions. In fact, in the other "anti-China" thread I just gave you a whole bucket of examples to back up what I claimed.

It's not like this attribute of mainland culture is some sort of secret, ask any foreigner who lives here, "China-hater" or "China-lover". I doubt you will find many who disagree. In fact, good luck finding even one. Even local Chinese complain about this.

Yes, Chinese put personal profit over the welfare of strangers to a greater extent than other cultures. Does making this observation mean one is a racist? Is it not possible to make an evidence-backed observation based on years of intimate examination without being labeled a racist? Is an observation racist simply because it is negative?

Perhaps you are unable to discern the difference because your vision is obscured by the spasmodic jerking of your knee?

[Tingkai]

Your hatred is obvious and that blinds you. As a result, your perception is distorted into prejudice.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by GePap
Maybe the statements by the Chinese leadership that getting rich is glorious have slowly seeped down all of society?

Ya think? Like its been asserted for decades by Arendt and others that totalitarianism is isolating, and you take a population only recently (and barely) out of totalitarianism, and you start telling them to enrich themselves, and they end up money grubbing indivualists. Will wonders never cease!!!

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Now that's a classic.

You're denying that much of the land was given to people who don't know how to farm?

Maybe you think black people are born with an inate knowledge of agriculture?

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Your hatred is obvious and that blinds you. As a result, your perception is distorted into prejudice.

How about countering his argument instead of psychologizing him?