Schiavo Autopsy report ready

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Ned


Not true at all. I am for freedom. I define right wing as libertarian and cannot abide legalized privilege in any form, which one certainly gets when there is rule by one party and that one party limits its membership. There is no substantial difference on this point between feudalism and communism.

You are quite rigth except for one thing - both systems think that those who can pay wether it's in money or political ranking are those that should have better treatment.

[Ned]

Originally posted by BlackCat


You are quite rigth except for one thing - both systems think that those who can pay wether it's in money or political ranking are those that should have better treatment.

Blackcat, the concept that all outcomes must be equal leads to the dark side of the force: communism.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Ned


What is wrong with monopolies?

That is just a stupid question, and even you know the answer.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Ned


Blackcat, the concept that all outcomes must be equal leads to the dark side of the force: communism.

What are you talking about ? Currently we have a seriously right wing government here and they could never dream of dropping governmental healt care - the benefits are so good that it would be totally stupid.

[Alexander's Horse]

We have a really great dental scheme run in my town where the government funds dental clinics. You pay a small fee and your kids get an annual dental check up and any remedial work or cleaning done. Its free for welfare recipients. Works very well, clean modern clinics, good treatment. Saves a bundle of cash for families. Not all parts of health system work as well but this shows what can be done. The dentists are not government employees. They get paid on a fee for service basis.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Ned
Freedom means freedom from the government.

Um, no. Try again. Freedom from government results only in anarchy.

You want government when you get mugged at gunpoint next time.

Originally posted by Ned
One does not have freedom if one's wages are controlled by the government.

Wrong again. There are different kinds of freedom.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by BlackCat
What are you talking about ? Currently we have a seriously right wing government here and they could never dream of dropping governmental healt care - the benefits are so good that it would be totally stupid.

You forgot one thing.

A "serious right wing" government in Europe is very left wing for the US. Thus, a US rightwinger would come across as some loony reactionary to you.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by ahasverus
I just saw some part of 60 minutes involving parallel-imported medicine. In Denmark when you go to the pharmacist to get proscribtion medicine the pharmacists is obliged to offer you a cheaper parallel-imported version if one exists. So if you want to get it cheaper you can. Now the US medi-corporations dont want that. So which system is socialist?

It was also the US-Government, who threatened (the german pharmaconcern) BAYER to disregard ther BAYER patent on Ciprobay (which was the only threat for Anthrax at this time) and illegally produce Ciprobay on their own just because the US-Government didn´t want to pay the full price for the medicine (at this time the american government ordered a lot of this medicine, because of the Envelopes with Anthrax which were discovered throughout the USA).
Does somehow sound socialist to me, if a state forces his wishes onto a free pharmacon

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
We have a really great dental scheme run in my town where the government funds dental clinics. You pay a small fee and your kids get an annual dental check up and any remedial work or cleaning done. Its free for welfare recipients. Works very well, clean modern clinics, good treatment. Saves a bundle of cash for families. Not all parts of health system work as well but this shows what can be done. The dentists are not government employees. They get paid on a fee for service basis.

Yep, same here.
The system also doesn´t prevent privately run clinics
(although they are mostly small and in most cases in specialisations where you can make a lot of money [like clinics for beauty modifications]) .
And normal Practices of course are always privately owned by the doctors themselves (and get the fees for the services they provide for their patients from the health insurance companies).
If you work you are always subject to a compulsory health insurance, which costs you a certain percentage of your wages (depending on the insurance company [which you are free to choose]) but you are always free to get a better police which gives you access to vcertain privilegues, such as having a room of your own in a clinic (without having to share it with other patients, which is standard), or being guaranteed to be treated by the head physician of the himself.

[Mr. Harley]

Ned - I am talking about the current state of mental health and it's lack of funding. One of our friends works in the county lockup (the one I quote in my sig, Mr. Dollinger) and we have discussed the problem law enforcement is having with the mentally ill. It's utterly macabre, they are considered competent enough to refuse to stay in a mental instution, but yet they are incompetent enough to end up in jail and resist in ways that forces the police to hurt them or even use deadly force (we had one case where the individual was hitting himself in the head with a tire iron, the police called on him to freeze and he charged them. Tragically, and by necessity, he was shot dead). We have had several shootings of obviously mentally ill people in my city over the last several years, sadly justified in almost every case.

If you look at my posts in other threads, I always apportion blame to the left and right. However, remember that the entire defunding of mental hospitals was done with the intent to transfer substantial amounts of the savings to support services. It has not happened, and much of that I can squarely put in the lap of anti-tax, free lunch types who refuse to properly fund that kind of program. When the programs aren't funded, you end up with mentally ill street people who are victimized, violent, and/or dead (they cannot take care of themselves) and who next to immigrants are the second largest source of deadly multi-antibiotic resistant TB in the US. Penny wise and pound foolish beyond a doubt.

[Alexander's Horse]

this idea that government restricts freedom - what happened to the government of the people, by the people for the people idea?

[Mr. Harley]

AH - it's the tension between the true libetarian ideal, which it critics accuse of being chaos, and the fact that a government of the people, by the people for the people can become the tyranny of 50% plus 1, leading to some pretty terrible mistreatment of minorities. It happened in both our countries.

[Ned]

Originally posted by BlackCat


That is just a stupid question, and even you know the answer.

Re: monopolies: And yet you see no problem with state monopolies?

[Ned]

Originally posted by BlackCat


What are you talking about ? Currently we have a seriously right wing government here and they could never dream of dropping governmental healt care - the benefits are so good that it would be totally stupid.

My reference to communism was a intended to suggest to you where the concept that all outcomes must be equal leads. It had no relevance to Danish politics of today.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
We have a really great dental scheme run in my town where the government funds dental clinics. You pay a small fee and your kids get an annual dental check up and any remedial work or cleaning done. Its free for welfare recipients. Works very well, clean modern clinics, good treatment. Saves a bundle of cash for families. Not all parts of health system work as well but this shows what can be done. The dentists are not government employees. They get paid on a fee for service basis.

This is the kind of system I would advocate for the United States.