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Europe's demilitarization

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  • #46
    Yeah, but we're not hurting for paying the cost. Not only does it not hurt us to cover Europe, but it keeps all the power in our own hands, which is better than risking and letting foreigners have some.
    $400 bn in debt every year, plus a 7 trillion deficit sounds like hurting to me.
    america is drunk with power and one day we're gonna wake up with the worlds biggest hangover (the size of rome's after the 4th century AD) i dont see why americans are so afraid of the world. why dont you trust anyone else?

    I don't think it's that circular. We take advantage of them because we have money. Army or no will not change that.
    we have money, but standing around talking doesnt get us anywhere. money lets us have guns, which gives us more money, which gives us bigger guns. you never andorra invade anyone or march around with big armies to faraway places to impose their will. because they dont have enough money, or people.
    "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

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    • #47
      $400 bn in debt every year, plus a 7 trillion deficit sounds like hurting to me.
      We're not in the ****hole because of the military. We could have the same military capability as we do today and not be in the ****hole. It's the management of the whole thing that has gotten us.
      meet the new boss, same as the old boss

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      • #48
        Originally posted by DanS
        Not in the UK. Not in France. AFAIK.
        Can't say for the UK, but in France, military guys aren't looked up. At best, this is seen as another career path (nothing like the "defending our freedom" fetishism of the Yanks). And the military as a whole is still treated with distrust.
        "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
        "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
        "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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        • #49
          or we can cut $200 bn from the military and cut our deficit in half
          "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

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          • #50
            BTW, I don't think the reason why the US military expenditures are so high are because of the protection of Europe. Your expenditures have skyrocketed ever since Bush started his Keynesian policies.

            Don't get me wrong, Keynesian policies are great IMO. But I prefer Europe to invest in useful things.
            "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
            "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
            "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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            • #51
              so youre saying we need to spend more then half of the worlds total expenditures on defense to be safe?
              No, I'm saying that a dollar that we spend doesn't buy the same that it buys others. The Chinese have a standing army more than twice our size even though they spend far less on their military on an exchange rate basis, for instance.
              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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              • #52
                yeah, like unemployment benefits!
                "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

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                • #53

                  No, I'm saying that a dollar that we spend doesn't buy the same that it buys others. The Chinese have a standing army more than twice our size even though they spend far less on their military on an exchange rate basis, for instance.
                  and why would you think that the exchange rate basis between the US and china would be a good way to compare our two countries militaries?
                  "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

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                  • #54
                    BTW, I don't think the reason why the US military expenditures are so high are because of the protection of Europe. Your expenditures have skyrocketed ever since Bush started his Keynesian policies.
                    The dirty little secret is that other than the War on Terror, Bush is not spending more on our military than did Clinton -- about 3.75% of our economy. Indeed, the basic structure of our military is virtually unchanged from Clinton to Bush.

                    The differences are: (1) Bush is aiming to keep the spending at 3.75% of our economy, while Clinton appeared to want to continue small reductions as a percentage of our economy for a somewhat larger peace dividend; and (2) Bush is realigning our basing around the world.

                    Despite what some may have you believe, we are a much less militarized society now than during the Cold War. We took a rather healthy peace dividend and that is not being reversed or even contemplated under Bush.
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia


                      and why would you think that the exchange rate basis between the US and china would be a good way to compare our two countries militaries?
                      I don't. That's what a "we spend half of the world's military spending" comparison does.
                      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                      • #56
                        The dirty little secret is that other than the War on Terror, Bush is not spending more on our military than did Clinton -- about 3.75% of our economy. Indeed, the basic structure of our military is virtually unchanged from Clinton to Bush.
                        the OTHER dirty little secret is who cares? war on terror spending (and war on iraq, which IS NOT part of the war on terror) is part of military spending, whichever way you cut it. (note that the majority of the "war on terror" money goes to iraq, a country that has nothing to do at all with stopping terrorists. so you could call it the dirty little war hidden under the war on terror banner)
                        "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

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                        • #57
                          /me wonders if he should go into book recommendation mode
                          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                          • #58
                            The WoT only consists of about a fifth of our military spending. Besides, it's a one-off expense. That expense line will revert to zero one of these years.
                            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                            • #59
                              I'll always bring in the nationalization angle into these discussion.

                              It seems that you're getting ripped off by your defence contractors all the time, in a rather rediculous way. I'd suggest establishing government corporations to do the same thing. Will be much cheaper in the long run.
                              urgh.NSFW

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by DinoDoc
                                * DinoDoc wonders if he should go into book recommendation mode
                                Recommend some good books.
                                I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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