An All-New "Order the Star Wars Films" Thread

[Wycoff]

I actually thought the battle of Endor was a little lame. First, you have the absurdity that some primative teddy bears could beat the best troops in the Empire, troops defending the shields protecting their ultimate weapon. That alone ruined it for me, because it was the deus ex machina that enabled the rebels to destroy Death Star II. On top of that absurdity, you have Lando taking the freaking Millenium Falcon flying through the half built Death Star, flying through corridors that are too small. Why wouldn't they people in smaller, more agile fighter ships rather than a big, bulky freighter? Just to give the Millenium Falcon some air time? Another absurdity. (though not as big or as disappointing as the Ewoks defeating the stormtroopers). Those two things ruined the battle of Endor for me.

My favorite space battle was the one in New Hope. It was the most believable, and it didn't seem as forced as the battle of Endor.

BTW, those who say there wasn't a battle in ESB, you are forgetting about the battle of Hoth. Though not the most visually impressive, I thought that battle was well done and exciting. I'd take Hoth over Endor.

[Kuciwalker]

It's not a space battle.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
It's not a space battle.

No, it wasn't (I didn't say it was a space battle). I think that's why I like it so much, because it was novel.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Han Solo: Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?

That one was supposed be be ridiculous. It's supposed to be humorous to see Han all nervous not knowing if his cover will be blown after infiltrating the Death Star. How can you compare this line with some of the crap ones in Ep3?

That line was ridiculous. It makes you laugh but then you realize an experienced smuggler panics that badly when faced with a pressure situation. WTF? It's utterly idiotic and bad writing. Hell, if he was that nervous with imperial troops when being boarded while smuggling (which gets him in trouble with Jabba), he'd be sitting in a jail already. It makes no sense. Luke, at least, is a wide eyed farm boy, you could see him be so nervous.

It'd be like Luke, after defeating Vader and then turning Vader back to the light side, gets all nervous and scared when some minor flunky Empire official comes into the Emperor's chamber.

It's funny how the prequal trilogy dialogue is examined and scrutinized 5 ways till Sunday, but the original trilogy? The bad dialogue in the original three movies is swept under the rug and accepted or explained away. Funny that. Now if the same acceptance could be given to the prequal trilogy...

I notice you didn't even try to defend the other bad dialogue quotes from the first movie I listed.

No offense but you have no argument in saying that the originals were just as cheesy as the new ones. Sure they had some bad dialoge but nowhere on the level of the new series.

I think you are blinded by nostaliga. The dialogue was as cheesy in the original trilogy. It is just that Lucas didn't have to write a romantic story in the originals (the Han-Leia falling in love lacked any romantic qualities really).

[Stefu]

Originally posted by Jaguar
I've seen some snatches of it about 8 times already.

Mostly because I play the funny parts over and over." YOU FOOL! I have been TRAINED in your arts by COUNT DOOKU!" will never fail to amuse me.

UNNNNN

LIMITED

POWERRRRRRR

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Slightly lame excuse, but the "1.5 past light speed" means that it has a 1.5 hyperdrive rating (i.e. engine is rated 1.5 when going past light speed), which is good, since the rating is inversely proportional to speed.

Yeah, right. I'm sure that's what Lucas meant when he wrote it.

Starfleet would make mincemeat out of those rubes.






I'm such a b*****d.

[Tassadar500]

But there were also some great lines in Revenge of the Sith, so you can't just pick out a few scenes. And seriously, who was listening to the script?

[Boris Godunov]

Saw RotS this weekend. Meh, s'alright. Nothing that made me really excited about the movie. Palpatine was the real shining star of the movie--absolutely flawless performance. Otherwise, the movie was all dazzling spectacle with no substance, bad script, really bad acting, and really, really bad directing (which caused the bad directing). But it's the best of the prequels, that's for sure.

So the final standings for me are:

ESB -> RotJ -> ANH -> RotS -> AotC -> TPM

[Jaguar]

Boris

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Saw RotS this weekend. Meh, s'alright. Nothing that made me really excited about the movie. Palpatine was the real shining star of the movie--absolutely flawless performance. Otherwise, the movie was all dazzling spectacle with no substance, bad script, really bad acting, and really, really bad directing (which caused the bad directing). But it's the best of the prequels, that's for sure.

So the final standings for me are:

ESB -> RotJ -> ANH -> RotS -> AotC -> TPM

Bad directing caused bad directing?

Duh!

ACK!

[Tuberski]

The point I found interesting in the movie, was when Anakin stops Mace from killing the Emperor.

You think about it, he actually saved Mace Windu from truning to the Dark Side.

His last good act.

ACK!

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

That line was ridiculous. It makes you laugh but then you realize an experienced smuggler panics that badly when faced with a pressure situation. WTF? It's utterly idiotic and bad writing. Hell, if he was that nervous with imperial troops when being boarded while smuggling (which gets him in trouble with Jabba), he'd be sitting in a jail already. It makes no sense. Luke, at least, is a wide eyed farm boy, you could see him be so nervous.

And how many times has Han been involved in firefights while being boarded by Imperials? Moreso Han admits that he avoids Imperials as much as possible hence his reluctance to fly Luke and gang out of Tatooine. And one thing is smuggling, another is infiltrating the Empire's most deadly piece of military hardware which is swarming with troops.

As a real-life analogy, a guy who's smuggling a pack of cocaine in a backpack across the street from a police station is one thing, another is to keep a straight face after being in a firefight inside an aircraft carrier which you just infiltrated illegaly.

It'd be like Luke, after defeating Vader and then turning Vader back to the light side, gets all nervous and scared when some minor flunky Empire official comes into the Emperor's chamber.

Bad analogy. Read above.

It's funny how the prequal trilogy dialogue is examined and scrutinized 5 ways till Sunday, but the original trilogy? The bad dialogue in the original three movies is swept under the rug and accepted or explained away. Funny that. Now if the same acceptance could be given to the prequal trilogy...

There is bad dialogue in the originals but it is honestly not as bad and not as prevalent as in the new ones. The main reason is that Lucas - who we all know and agree to be a terrible director and screenwriter vis a vis his production skills - directed and wrote all of the new series whereas he only did the same to ANH (which consequently has the grand majority of cheesy dialoge in the original series). Neither ESB nor RotJ were written by Lucas and hence not only the dialogue is light years better, but so is the acting.

I notice you didn't even try to defend the other bad dialogue quotes from the first movie I listed.

Because most of them are plainly not bad

It is just that Lucas didn't have to write a romantic story in the originals (the Han-Leia falling in love lacked any romantic qualities really).

The Han-Leia relationship in the originals is so goddamn good that I honestly find it among the most original love stories ever precisely because it is so unconventional and spawns from a relationship which started as hate. Han's arrogance and Leia's royal pompousness in ANH was hilarious to watch (classic case of royalty vs. scumbag). And in ESB Han's pestering of Leia over that she loved him, and her complete denial (though we all knew there was something) was great.

Princess Leia: Oh, you make it so difficult sometimes.
Han Solo: I do, I really do. You could be a little nicer, though. Come on, admit it. Sometimes you think I'm all right.
Princess Leia: Occasionally maybe... when you aren't acting like a scoundrel.
Han Solo: [laughs] Scoundrel? Scoundrel? I like the sound of that.
Princess Leia: Stop that
Han Solo: Stop what?
Princess Leia: Stop that, my hands are dirty
Han Solo: My hands are dirty too, what are you afraid of?
Princess Leia: Afraid?
Han Solo: You're trembling
Princess Leia: I'm not trembling
Han Solo: You like me because I'm a scoundrel, there are no scoundrels in your life
Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.


please point where there's a similarly great love scene in the originals.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
You know, I just don't see it. Where is the bad dialogue again? I think you are picking nits just to pick them. There is nothing horrible about those lines. You may think one is overtly political and the other both sides accusing each other of evil, but I fail to see the bad dialogue you are speaking of.

Where is the awfulness?

OK, I"ll start with "Only a Sith deals in absolutes," because I think that one requires the most explanation. I know that you're a proponent of relativism, and I don't want to get into that debate again, but you must agree that the Star Wars universe is anything but relativistic. Anger, fear, and hatred are categorically bad. When the Emperor invites Luke to strike him down in ROTJ, and Luke refuses, that is a good action, at least from a Star Wars moral perspective. When he refuses to give in to anger to defeat Vader, that is a good action.

Anikin turns to the Dark Side because he fears the loss of his wife. In most universes, there's nothing wrong with fear of loss. But in Star Wars, fear is categorically, absolutely bad.

The Jedi believe entirely in absolutes. It is when they stray from these absolutes to situational ethics that they fall to the dark side. The line was completely contradictory to the ethos put forth by Star Wars, and the transparent political message was just icing on the cake.

[Kuciwalker]

Jaguar owns Imran

[Imran Siddiqui]

And how many times has Han been involved in firefights while being boarded by Imperials? Moreso Han admits that he avoids Imperials as much as possible hence his reluctance to fly Luke and gang out of Tatooine. And one thing is smuggling, another is infiltrating the Empire's most deadly piece of military hardware which is swarming with troops.

Yet, he has dealt with them on a number of occasions. Han says even I get boarded. It may not be as much as other smugglers, but he has gotten boarded. Dealing with imperials while smuggling should have him be a tad bit more smooth. One slip up when being boarded would result in him getting sent away (I'm sure even nervousness would be enough), so him just crumbling is silly. Also in the Extended Universe, the reason Chewbacca is with Han is because Han, as an IMPERIAL soldier, knocked off the rest of his team when their orders were to kill Chewy. Therefor Chewy owes Han a life debt.

The main reason is that Lucas - who we all know and agree to be a terrible director and screenwriter vis a vis his production skills - directed and wrote all of the new series whereas he only did the same to ANH

That's not entirely true. In RotS, Lucas knew he'd be busy with all the special effects and CGI so he brought in Christopher Neil (recommended by Francis Ford Coppola) to rewrite portions of the dialogue and be the dialogue coach.

Neither ESB nor RotJ were written by Lucas

Actually the screenplay for RotJ was written jointly by Lawrence Kasdan and George Lucas, by an almost equal amount.

Furthermore in RotJ, Irvin Kershner (director of ESB) said that Marquand was useless as a director because of of conflicts with the cast and a lot of the movie was directed by Kershner's assistant director in ESB and Lucas himself... which is what gave Lucas the idea to direct all of the prequals (to avoid another such debacle).

The Han-Leia relationship in the originals is so goddamn good that I honestly find it among the most original love stories ever precisely because it is so unconventional and spawns from a relationship which started as hate. Han's arrogance and Leia's royal pompousness in ANH was hilarious to watch (classic case of royalty vs. scumbag). And in ESB Han's pestering of Leia over that she loved him, and her complete denial (though we all knew there was something) was great.

Wha? For guys, yeah it was a fun romance because Han, in Kevin Smith's immortal words, acts like a pimp. However, not sure the women really thought it to be all that genuine.

OK, I"ll start with "Only a Sith deals in absolutes," because I think that one requires the most explanation. I know that you're a proponent of relativism, and I don't want to get into that debate again, but you must agree that the Star Wars universe is anything but relativistic. Anger, fear, and hatred are categorically bad. When the Emperor invites Luke to strike him down in ROTJ, and Luke refuses, that is a good action, at least from a Star Wars moral perspective. When he refuses to give in to anger to defeat Vader, that is a good action.

Anikin turns to the Dark Side because he fears the loss of his wife. In most universes, there's nothing wrong with fear of loss. But in Star Wars, fear is categorically, absolutely bad.

The Jedi believe entirely in absolutes. It is when they stray from these absolutes to situational ethics that they fall to the dark side. The line was completely contradictory to the ethos put forth by Star Wars, and the transparent political message was just icing on the cake.

Look at what came before that line. Anakin was extremely arrogant. The line by Obi-Wan refers to that. Only Sith think they are the ultimate answer. You look at Yoda and Mace Windu and they question if they are right. They listen to others. They think they may have made a mistake with the prophecy. They are vain, but don't think of themselves as the end all and be all (which is what Palpatine makes Anakin think they are).

The "you are either with me or my enemy" stands for that position that Anakin thinks that he is the answer and anyone that disagrees is not just wrong, but an enemy.

Compared to the Jedi council. Qui-Jon was a maverick. He didn't agree with the Council on a lot of things, but they didn't consider him an enemy. As long as you are not a Sith (or moving to the Sith), you are ok to the Jedi.

I agree it could have been better stated, but the scene had to do with Anakin thinking that only he was right and anyone that disagreed with a villian and had to be taken out.