An All-New "Order the Star Wars Films" Thread

[Tassadar500]

Originally posted by Jaguar
Truth.

But Yaguare, we both know that you prefer Portman over Fisher.

[Imran Siddiqui]

My complaint against ESB is the lack of grandiose-ness compared to most other SW movies. Other than the lightsaber duel (which other than the "I am your father" bit, is not as good as the one in RotJ), there is no definitive, heart-stopping megabattle to decide the fate of the galaxy.

And I'd argue that the lack of one of those battles makes ESB the best, because instead of focusing on 'grandiose' battles, it focuses on the personal struggle of those involved in the epic. It is not about some space battle with millions of ships, but about Luke, Leia, and Han as people. It personalizes the series.

The "I am your father" just crystalizes it. It isn't just about oh, let's bring down the empire. It becomes far more than that.

[Tassadar500]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

My complaint against ESB is the lack of grandiose-ness compared to most other SW movies. Other than the lightsaber duel (which other than the "I am your father" bit, is not as good as the one in RotJ), there is no definitive, heart-stopping megabattle to decide the fate of the galaxy.

And I'd argue that the lack of one of those battles makes ESB the best, because instead of focusing on 'grandiose' battles, it focuses on the personal struggle of those involved in the epic. It is not about some space battle with millions of ships, but about Luke, Leia, and Han as people. It personalizes the series.

The "I am your father" just crystalizes it. It isn't just about oh, let's bring down the empire. It becomes far more than that.

When Luke screamed out "NOOO!" it was just as corny as when Vader did it.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

My complaint against ESB is the lack of grandiose-ness compared to most other SW movies. Other than the lightsaber duel (which other than the "I am your father" bit, is not as good as the one in RotJ), there is no definitive, heart-stopping megabattle to decide the fate of the galaxy.

And I'd argue that the lack of one of those battles makes ESB the best, because instead of focusing on 'grandiose' battles, it focuses on the personal struggle of those involved in the epic. It is not about some space battle with millions of ships, but about Luke, Leia, and Han as people. It personalizes the series.

The "I am your father" just crystalizes it. It isn't just about oh, let's bring down the empire. It becomes far more than that.

I think anything that focuses on Mark Hamill's character detracts from the movie instead of adding to it. He always was a weak actor. His response to the "I am your father" line really shows it. I've seen the move five or six times and it's still awkward every time.

Oh, and the other two have a love story. Big deal.


I don't deny that ESB is good though.

How about we compare ROTJ to ROTS, since those are our two favorites other than ESB?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Lord Nuclear
Analking turning into Vader > Vader turning back to Analkin

Forget the acting or the script, but the general idea of RotS is MUCH MUCH better than RotJ. Remember, everyone likes when the evil guys win.

You mean, ignore the fact that the movie turned out crappy, and just say it's good because the basic concept has the potential of making a good movie?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Jaguar
You understand the awesomeness that is the Battle of Endor.

Jaguar speaks truth

[Imran Siddiqui]

I think anything that focuses on Mark Hamill's character detracts from the movie instead of adding to it. He always was a weak actor. His response to the "I am your father" line really shows it. I've seen the move five or six times and it's still awkward every time.

Oh, and the other two have a love story. Big deal.

He may not be a good actor, but the story is good. The development of Luke as a Jedi under Yoda. Han and Leia's love story advances them as characters as well. The cryo-freezing and Luke's finding out his lineage both advance the characters beyond mere cookie cutter as they were in the first movie.

How about we compare ROTJ to ROTS, since those are our two favorites other than ESB?

Well, you like the 3 battles at the same time at the end of ROTJ, I prefer the two lightsaber duels at the end of ROTS. ROTS suffered from 2 or 3 bad scenes between Anakin and Padme, but aside from that kicked major ass. The Ewoks were far more involved in ROTJ and it was hard to suspend belief for the message Lucas was trying to say (non-tech can beat uber-tech).

[Imran Siddiqui]

Forget the acting or the script

Indeed, the acting and dialogue of the first three movies where just as corny and silly... but since Star Wars is based on the corny space opera movies of the 20s and 30s, it fits right in.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

My complaint against ESB is the lack of grandiose-ness compared to most other SW movies. Other than the lightsaber duel (which other than the "I am your father" bit, is not as good as the one in RotJ), there is no definitive, heart-stopping megabattle to decide the fate of the galaxy.

And I'd argue that the lack of one of those battles makes ESB the best, because instead of focusing on 'grandiose' battles, it focuses on the personal struggle of those involved in the epic. It is not about some space battle with millions of ships, but about Luke, Leia, and Han as people. It personalizes the series.

The "I am your father" just crystalizes it. It isn't just about oh, let's bring down the empire. It becomes far more than that.

How many movies have great plots, awsome plot twists, and memorable moments?

How many have massive grandiose battles which keep you on the edge of your seat?

Star Wars is what it is because of the latter. No-one would have paid to just watch an overbudgeted space opera if it didn't have awsome action scenes in it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Perhaps, but no one would have gone back if 'the Force' wasn't a main driving factor behind the plot.

Hell, most of the people involved thought it was going to be flop while filming it. The only reason Yavin was in the first movie was because George thought he wouldn't get to do another one (it was originally only supposed to be blown up once, at the end of the third movie).

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

How about we compare ROTJ to ROTS, since those are our two favorites other than ESB?

Well, you like the 3 battles at the same time at the end of ROTJ, I prefer the two lightsaber duels at the end of ROTS. ROTS suffered from 2 or 3 bad scenes between Anakin and Padme, but aside from that kicked major ass. The Ewoks were far more involved in ROTJ and it was hard to suspend belief for the message Lucas was trying to say (non-tech can beat uber-tech).

OK, we've settled that ESB is a pretty good movie.

The two lightsaber duels at the end of ROTS? One has the Emperor cackling like a maniac, and Yoda crawling through air ducts. Way to destroy the dignity of two of the most awesome original series characters.

The other big duel is Anakin vs Obiwan, which has them floating on random pieces of metal in a river of lava. Sure, it looked good, but when you think about what they were actually doing, it's ridiculous.

ROTS did not just suffer from a couple of scenes with bad dialogue. It was a chronic problem that permeated through almost every scene. We start with "You will not get away this time, Dooku!", move on to "Anni, I want to have our baby back home on Naboo. We can raise it in the lake country, where no-one will know..." and "No, it is because I am so in love with you." Then we get the "badass" General Grievous once again, and he comes up with this gem: "You FOOL! I have been TRAINED in your Jedi arts by COUNT DOOKU!"

Yoda's dialogue was horribly written as well. "Not if anything to say about it, I have." "A prophecy that misread, could have been." His syntax and sentence variety bear little resemblance to the Yoda of Empire Strikes Back.

The last words Anikin and Obiwan exchange are awful as well:

Anakin Skywalker: Don't lecture me Obi-Wan. I see through the lies of the Jedi. I do not fear the dark side as you do... I have peace, freedom and justice to my new Empire.
Obi-Wan: Your new Empire!
Anakin Skywalker: Don't make me kill you.
Obi-Wan: Anakin... My allegiance is to the republic, to democracy!
Anakin Skywalker: If you're not with me, then you are my enemy.
Obi-Wan: Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

(Yay for stilted politics)

And then, during the duel-

Obi-Wan: I have failed you, Anakin. I have failed you.
Anakin Skywalker: I should have known the Jedi were plotting to take over.
Obi-Wan: Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil.
Anakin Skywalker: From my point of view, the Jedi are evil.
Obi-Wan: Well, then you are lost!

Their final confrontation should have been an emotional, compelling battle of wills. But the dialogue was just too goofy.

This is only the beginning of the problems with ROTS. But I figure I should give you a post to begin to pick apart, so I'll post this now.

[Kuciwalker]

Reading through the dialogue again... the horribleness of it didn't sink it the first time

[Jaguar]

-I love you!
-No, I love you!

-You're evil!
-No, you're evil!.

I am rubber and you are glue...

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
[q]I think anything that focuses on Mark Hamill's character detracts from the movie instead of adding to it. He always was a weak actor. His response to the "I am your father" line really shows it. I've seen the move five or six times and it's still awkward every time.

Mark Hamill's reaction to the I Am Your Father line is MILES ahead of any spoken line ever said by Hayden Christiensen in Ep3.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Master Zen


Mark Hamill's reaction to the I Am Your Father line is MILES ahead of any spoken line ever said by Hayden Christiensen in Ep3.

Truth. I think Mark Hamill was a mediocre actor, and Hayden Christiansen was an abysmal actor.