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Xbox 360/Playstation 3/Revolution Thread (Part 2)

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  • Ninja Gaiden designer talks about the 360. He thinks the standard DVD will be restrictive. And I thought 9 GB was more than enough.

    Itagaki talks Xbox 360
    Team Ninja guru also further confirms that Microsoft will make a major announcement in Japan later this month.

    In an interview published in the latest issue of Famitsu Xbox Magazine, Tecmo producer and Team Ninja head honcho Tomonobu Itagaki talked more about his impressions of the Xbox 360. When asked about the console's triple-core IBM PowerPC processor design, Itagaki called it a "buffed-up Sega Saturn," as the old console was also multiprocessor, coming with two 32-bit CPUs. He said that a single-CPU machine is easier for programming, but multicore structures have become the recent trend.

    "The Xbox 360 is said to be a machine that's easy to develop for, but that's because it has a good lineup of middleware and infrastructure. So it should be easy to create something that's up to a certain level [of quality]. But if you try to take advantage of the Xbox 360's full hardware specs, you'll find out about the difficulty in programming for a multicore machine," said Itagaki.

    "The Xbox 360 has enough power without all the cores going into use. Even if just a single core is used for a game, it will still be several more times powerful than machines up until now. But we aren't satisfied at that kind of a level. Our programmers are having fun playing around with the machine. They're swinging around all the cores and making a game that shows the powers of the Xbox 360."

    Itagaki said that the Xbox 360's 512MB of main memory is more than enough for games, but he feels that the machine's media might bring up some problems. He said he would have preferred Microsoft to adopt the high-capacity HD-DVD format, but he said that, given the next-gen disc format wars, he could live with Microsoft's decision.

    "Another reason why [Microsoft] went with the 9GB DVD format (dual-layered DVDs can contain up to 9.4 GB) is that American and European developers tend to use real-time rendered cutscenes. But Japanese developers use a lot of prerendered cutscenes, so the DVD format brings a bit of an anxiety. The screen resolution for Xbox 360 games will be in high definition, so the prerendered movies are going to be pretty large. If we encoded the Dead or Alive 4 trailer from E3 in high definition in a quality acceptable to us, it will easily be about 2GB. With DOA4, we'll be using the disc's capacity to its full extent. We started development on DOA4 pretty early, and we didn't know what disc format the Xbox 360 was going to adopt. So when we learned about it, we were really knocked out."


    Itagaki also revealed that the DOA4 demo trailer shown during the Electronic Entertainment Expo was actually done with an alpha development kit for the Xbox 360. He said that his team received Xbox 360 beta kits very recently and was having fun with them.

    The Team Ninja head also further confirmed that Microsoft is planning a major announcement in Japan this month. "We're currently thinking of whether we should create a new trailer for the upcoming Xbox 360 announcement in July, or if we should go straight ahead to work on the completion of the game," he said. "We'll play around with the beta kit for a little bit more and decide."

    When Famitsu Xbox said to Itakagi that fans were afraid that Team Ninja could end up abandoning the Xbox 360 after the release of Sony's PlayStation 3, he commented, "Team Ninja will not disappoint their fans." Itagaki added, "To be honest, we're too busy on the development of DOA4 to think about anything else."

    When asked for his opinion on the PlayStation 3, Itagaki commented that he respects the fact that Sony is trying to "create a computer that comes from Japan." However, he also added that he hopes Sony will make a machine that actually runs according to its listed hardware specs. "A machine that doesn't run according to its promised CPU frequency is out of the question," he said.
    Let us be lazy in everything, except in loving and drinking, except in being lazy – Lessing

    Comment


    • What's the point of FMV anymore? It's annoying to me when games use it more often than not, game engines (especially next-gen) should be more than capable of doing it in real-time. It's more immersive and it uses WAY less space.

      It made sense in the PSX days...but not PS3/XB360.
      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Asher
        What's the point of FMV anymore? It's annoying to me when games use it more often than not, game engines (especially next-gen) should be more than capable of doing it in real-time. It's more immersive and it uses WAY less space.

        It made sense in the PSX days...but not PS3/XB360.
        Its true, real-time rendered cutscenes tend to be more immersive and they definitely use less space. But I assume prerendered cutscenes have their advantages. Even if your using the game engine. Suppose you're doing a kick-ass cutscene using the game engine, like the opening scene in Revenge of the Sith for example, but the 360 can only render it in real-time at 5fps. A solution would be to do a prerendered cutscene. That way, you would have your kick-ass cutscene at 60 fps.

        Btw, I heard that's what happened with the Killzone 2 demo at E3. They rendered it in real-time on Alpha dev kits, but at 5 fps. They took that, accelerated it at 60 fps. Voilà, you've got a kick-ass "demo".
        Let us be lazy in everything, except in loving and drinking, except in being lazy – Lessing

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        • I'd still prefer they would just design the cut-scenes based on the game engine itself, it really pisses me off when I see obvious FMV in the game.

          That's one reason I absolutely can't stand Final Fantasy games. Movies should be $10, not $60.
          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

          Comment


          • I'm starting to think that next-gen games will be more expensive and shorter than current games.
            Let us be lazy in everything, except in loving and drinking, except in being lazy – Lessing

            Comment


            • Maybe they could do a mix of both... Prerendered FMV on the background, with HW-rendered bits and pieces over. You know, have the FMV be black behind the HW-rendering. I hear black compresses well...
              I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"

              Comment




              • Here’s an interesting tid-bit: Toshiba was showing off their Fall line-up the other day and demoed a HD-DVD that was being created in conjunction with Microsoft. This, of course, was well before the official Xbox software announcement, but now attendees are starting to wonder if references to the device’s ability to download games and play them may be tied into the Xbox software deal.

                Could Toshiba be working on a HD-DVD Xbox? It would certainly explain why Microsoft seems so willing to drop the original console like a bad habit, maybe they are making room for a new, fancier iteration of the original.

                Oh, and the Toshiba folks also spilled the beans on HD-DVD and the Xbox 360, saying that the next-gen console will use the new format for its media and whining about how Microsoft is dragging their feet on the official announcement.

                For what it’s worth, Microsoft officials told me that the week before E3 and reconfirmed it when I called them back days later.
                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                Comment


                • If we encoded the Dead or Alive 4 trailer from E3 in high definition in a quality acceptable to us, it will easily be about 2GB.
                  That guy's numbers don't seem right. The trailer would have to be at least a half hour long to hit 2 GB.
                  I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                  Comment


                  • That rumor is probably bs. Personally, I'd prefer a 12x standard DVD drive to a 2x HD-DVD. And if they don't have enough room on one DVD, they can always use a second one.
                    Let us be lazy in everything, except in loving and drinking, except in being lazy – Lessing

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Oerdin


                      Amen. I haven't owned one since around 1991 or so. PC is the way to go.
                      Only if you want to play Civ2 for the rest of your life.

                      Xbox360 will cost me 300 dollars.

                      To get the same kind of graphics on a computer, I would have to spend at least that much on a video card and RAM alone, not to mention the other restrictions PCs have.

                      It's time for the PC fanboys to admit it: the standard/gaming PC is going to be left choking on spyware by the Xbox 360.

                      Comment


                      • That rumor is probably bs.
                        I agree with this.
                        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Verto


                          Only if you want to play Civ2 for the rest of your life.

                          Xbox360 will cost me 300 dollars.

                          To get the same kind of graphics on a computer, I would have to spend at least that much on a video card and RAM alone, not to mention the other restrictions PCs have.

                          It's time for the PC fanboys to admit it: the standard/gaming PC is going to be left choking on spyware by the Xbox 360.
                          Consoles are not good at all types of games. There are no strategy games worth mentioning on consoles.
                          Let us be lazy in everything, except in loving and drinking, except in being lazy – Lessing

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by nostromo


                            Consoles are not good at all types of games. There are no strategy games worth mentioning on consoles.
                            True, but when was the last time a good strategy game came out that required anything beyond a circa 2003 computer?

                            Comment


                            • I thought the issue was PC versus console, not high-end PC versus console. Consoles are not good at strategy games. Anyway, Age of Empires 3 will probably require a pretty decent machine.
                              Last edited by Nostromo; July 2, 2005, 23:00.
                              Let us be lazy in everything, except in loving and drinking, except in being lazy – Lessing

                              Comment




                              • An interview with Robbie Bach of MS.

                                2:30

                                Gold = Current Live.

                                Silver New level under Gold.

                                3:15

                                Silver does not include multiplayer gaming.

                                Gold for gaming and same price as Xbox Live now.

                                3:45

                                Paid tournaments.

                                4:00

                                Approachability... basically non-expert gamers will have the game dumb down automatically, supposedly will crank up for expert gamers.

                                4:30

                                Camera and video chat go hand and hand with gaming.

                                Music plays a MORE important role now.

                                5:00

                                6 EA launch games, 25 EA games in development

                                5:30

                                160 games in development

                                5:45

                                Launch windows = Calander 2005

                                15 day 1 titles (+/-)

                                More titles will trickle in after day 1

                                7:00

                                No 1st party Xbox 1 titles left (although lists a slew of front line 3rd party games)

                                7:20

                                MS needs to lead the charge on the 360 platform.

                                7:30

                                Live is central to the 360.

                                Silver members will get to SAMPLE/TRY Gold level

                                8:00

                                Media center access through 360. 360 is extender/client -- out of box. Can access TV shows, music, etc... from your PC (Media Center?), hook up Digital Camera, etc...

                                8:45

                                Consoles pricing question... question about NOTHING above $299 has succeeded. Answer: MS understands price points, history, and customer preference and will factor all those in on their pricing front.

                                No final decision yet. Still doing consumer research.

                                9:45

                                Big support on wireless...

                                If you want a wireless controller they will sell you one.

                                Wired controller will work on PC and 360.

                                10:15

                                Asked about Xbox adapter... he says good Q, but does not have the answer to that.

                                10:45

                                Not merging PC platform and 360 platform, just trying to leverage the controller pluses so developers easily have a standard on the PC.

                                11:15

                                Will there be KB support for the 360? Technically possible, no decision on that as of yet.

                                11:30

                                When questioner asks about Square-Enix comment about SE saying "First game for 360" he asks if that means there will be more... Bach says you will need to ask SE, but notes "that is what he said"

                                12:00

                                Remote... Live TV button. The button is not for TiVo... Media Center button for Media Center Interface.

                                To be used as an extender. Basically a unification of access/uniformity.

                                14:45

                                2 ports like the PS2 for wired

                                But base skew has 4 wireless also, plus you can have multitap like adapters. They believe most will go wireless.

                                15:20

                                PACKING IS WIRELESS

                                15:30

                                HDD is removable. No news on SKU front.

                                15:45

                                Headset, remote, wireless controller, and HDD are in base SKU.

                                17:15

                                Bungie guys manage the Halo franchise.

                                MS's approach to 1st party software... has gone from a "bulk" producer to a company desiring to push content that drives the platform, meaning LESS titles, carefully timed and planned to offer features what they are doing with their platform.

                                Basically more strategic / development time on their titles.

                                18:30

                                1st party studios will do less games, but more quality AAA games.

                                3rd parties are doing a good job of covering genres, that MS is looking to use 1st party for AAA titles.

                                20:20

                                "Magic" 25% performance number of Alphas...

                                20:45

                                Spends a lot of time, yet again, praising not only MS games but ALSO 3rd party games. Bach seems to mention a LOT of 3rd party games.

                                21:30

                                Gives some time to Japanese developers.

                                22:00

                                Pricing appropriate for each market. They do not do math based on exchange rates. MS prices for local currency and expectations.

                                23:30

                                Always a shortage of consoles... question about redirecting units... notes how PSP [at the intervierw time] was not in Europe; their goal is to launch so people in every territory can have some access and then ship more units every week just keep ship more units, every week to every area, until demand is met.

                                24:45

                                In 5 years MS sees themselves as the leader in the video game space.

                                10-15 years out is very hard to project because MS expects the market to be VERY VERY different from today. Expects an evolution, social and community aspects will be more important. Content for more than just gamers. Music, Movies, and Games are now thought in different ways NOW but wont be true in 10-15 years in the future.
                                Most important part is confirmation that the base console will come with the console, a controller, a remote (for DVD, etc), harddrive, and headset, and that there are 160 games in development so far for Xbox 360.
                                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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