German Ignorance

[Q Classic]

how differently would we react if someone would say "I love the smell of Zyklon B in the morning"...

Actually, I'd laugh, because the person saying that line would probably be dead.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Wow. This thread went from a discussion of German ignorance all the way to a living example of American ignorance! Its like magic

Nope, no magic. That happens no matter what issue that are taken up

[Pekka]

Perhaps Zyklon B and concentration camps were .. well extermination camps. They were to serve in killing Jews, Gypsies, gays.. all kinds of folks, most notably Jewish people because they took the heavy casualties and suffering from it.

In Vietnam, it was more regular war. It's different to fight as a soldier in a war and being in camps, snuffing people with goal to kill as many as you can more efficiently than before.

Some might say there's no difference, but I think there's a big difference. To make a movie about war, yeah, well, Apocalypse Now is a great movie. And to say you are supposed to hate every moment is just kidding ourselves. Even in the moment of death and destruction, some people get high from it, and not all of them are insane. Fighting where it's more fighting than just executing people is different, and joking the other one is more stupid even though the ohter one is kind of stupid too.

Of course, if you watch Apocalypse Now without being America hater, you'd know that Lieutenant Colonel Bill Kilgore is a ****ing nut case in all respects of the word and is displayed as one. A person who has gone little crazy in the head. Or do you think that the surfing bit was to show they enjoy surfing in there? No. It was to point out he is not sane. In teh Redux, he actually flies his choppers around the jungle and uses loud speakers to get his surfing board back because they stole it from him. that's not exactly sane. That was the whole point. They were not idolizing him at all. Only haters would interpret it like that, and war masturbators. He was shown as kind of a cowboy rock'n'roll who is nuts. Kind of like when the dudes in Full Metal Jacket, the dude in the chopper shoots water buffalos and civilians for fun, and explains he is the baddets mother****er and makes jokes about killing women and children. The joke is pretty funny, in very sinister way, because it's totally absurd. The idea is again, to showcase the insanity of the situation. And in the end, where they sing mickey mouse, it wasn't to make it childrens movie or to make people laugh, or to make it more acceptable. It was the opposite.

If you feel that Apocalypse Now shows the war as fun, you should watch the entire movie. It shows exactly the opposite. It portrays the insanity.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Muad'Dib
As to you, Mr. Fun.

It's called collaterial damage. Stick a SAM site next to a school, and yeah, kids will die. The enemy always tries to weaken your resolve in war thinking that you don't have the balls. But the enemy always gets it wrong.

Americans go out of their way to avoid targeting civilians, to the detriment of our own troops. But when you face an enemy, especially fanactical ones, that cares not for the value of human life and that of their own people. What are you going to do, fight with your hands tied. Because that is exactly what the enemy wants you to do.

My Lai is such a wonderful example of Americans going out of their way to avoid targetting civvies, I don't know how you missed it

[Pekka]

Tass, well you know what I meant, a war without those mass extermination camps and with intent to do some racial purification.

[Agathon]

I still find it hard to believe that there are Americans who regard their government's actions toward Vietnam as anything other than cynical BS.

[Kuciwalker]

****... I'm agreeing with Tass

[Pekka]

Tass, why can't I have this lovely cow? It's not my fault I'm only a Chieftain you know.

[Kuciwalker]

Spam on-topic. Now.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by MrFun


The South Vietnman government was just as corrupt and repressive as the North Vietnam government. What kind of a choice was it for Vietnamese when they had a choice between a rotten capitalist regime, or a rotten communist regime?

c.f., South Korea.

Rotten capitalist regimes tend to be more effective economically and give bigger chances of democratisation.

c.f., South Korea.

[Q Classic]

As far as Vietnam v. Holocaust...

I have to say, Muad'Dib, oh "wise" one, you're not helping yourself here. Nobody's arguing that Vietnam was as horrible as the Holocaust.

We're just taking you to task for one thing:

You're *****ing about one child whitewashing their country's history while you yourself do exactly the same thing. Even more brazenly, you pass judgement upon a whole nation for one child's comments, which is something nobody here has seriously done.

While generalizations and extreme declarations might be a useful rhetorical tactic, don't get your panties all in a twist when someone calls you on it.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Q Cubed

c.f., South Korea.



c.f., South Korea.

South Korea is an example of what South Vietnam could have become, if it weren't for the corrupted, elitist South Vietnamese rulers who did not have the interest of common South Vietnamese workers and peasants.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Care to estimate deaths caused by the South Vietnamese government vs. the purges inflicted upon them fromthe North say 72-75 vs. 75-78.

We made the commitment during the negotiated peace treaty that we would protect South Vietnam's sovereignty. When 75 came and passed thanks to the like of Teddy Kennedy we not only stabbed them in the back by not living up to our treaty obligations but refused to provide medical aid.

A bright spot in our recent history no doubt, only obfuscated by the nonsequitorial arguement that the South Vietnamese were as bad if not worse.

You just think you're turning me on with those sexy rolling-eyes smilie of yours.

[Q Classic]

South Korea is an example of what South Vietnam could have become, if it weren't for the corrupted, elitist South Vietnamese rulers who did not have the interest of common South Vietnamese workers and peasants.

You speak as if Syngman Rhee, Chun Doo-hwan, and Roh Tae-woo weren't corrupted, elitist rulers who had the interests of the common folk at heart.

It took ~40 years for South Korea to be democratic. Who's to say that in ~40 years, a South Vietnam wouldn't have been?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Q Cubed

South Korea is an example of what South Vietnam could have become, if it weren't for the corrupted, elitist South Vietnamese rulers who did not have the interest of common South Vietnamese workers and peasants.

You speak as if Syngman Rhee, Chun Doo-hwan, and Roh Tae-woo weren't corrupted, elitist rulers who had the interests of the common folk at heart.

It took ~40 years for South Korea to be democratic. Who's to say that in ~40 years, a South Vietnam wouldn't have been?

Why should it have to take 40 years for common workers to pick up dogsh*t for the people at the top before social/economic disparity declines?