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[Drake Tungsten]

Why the hell would they therefore think the title was anything else?

Because the title given by the movie itself, presented in the exact same way as the titles for Empire and Jedi, is A New Hope?

Why would I assume the title of the movie I'd just seen was something different than what was on the marquis/video box/in the newspaper/etc.?

I do it all the time. For example, I know that "Hidalgo" is the real name of the movie, even if the box at my video store says "Ocean of Fire"...

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Why the hell would they therefore think the title was anything else?

Because the title given by the movie itself, presented in the exact same way as the titles for Empire and Jedi, is A New Hope?

It's like a circle of stupidity.

Going into ESB or RotJ, they would have seen posters, advertisments and commercials all calling them such. They would have those titles on their ticket stubs. But for the first film? Just "Star Wars" on everything. The logical conclusion is that, just as the titles of ESB and RotJ are what was advertised, so is Star Wars. Officially, "A New Hope" was only a subtitle of Star Wars for 20 years.

I do it all the time. For example, I know that "Hidalgo" is the real name of the movie, even if the box at my video store says "Ocean of Fire"...

Cute, but foreign retitlings don't count.

[JohnT]

Because the title given by the movie itself, presented in the exact same way as the titles for Empire and Jedi, is A New Hope?

You mean on the box cover? And in the movie listing books? And on the theater marquee? And on the VHS/DVD boxes? And on the Timothy Zahn novelizations? And on the merchandising? And on the watch I got for Christmas when I was 11?

Sorry, but they all referred to Star Wars. Not A New Hope but Star Wars.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
How pervasive is branding and advertising for a film that was released years, even decades ago? I'm sorry, but most people who didn't see Episode 4 in its initial run are going to base what they refer to the movie as on viewings of the movie itself, not non-existant marketing for a movie that had ended its theater run years before.

I'm not taking a side in this, though. Both sides are talking out their ass, spewing BAMs like "most people think this" or "no, the majority calls them this!" Nobody has any proof. I'm just pointing out that it is possible that some people would refer to Episode 4 as "A New Hope" based on viewings of the movie...

Drake, I offered US Copyright Office cites to back my claim. Boris offered images of SW products. It's Imran who's offering BAMs.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by JohnT

Because the title given by the movie itself, presented in the exact same way as the titles for Empire and Jedi, is A New Hope?

You mean on the box cover? And in the movie listing books? And on the theater marquee? And on the VHS/DVD boxes? And on the Timothy Zahn novelizations? And on the merchandising? And on the watch I got for Christmas when I was 11?

Sorry, but they all referred to Star Wars. Not A New Hope but Star Wars.

Timothy Zahn just wrote SW novels, not the novelizations

[JohnT]

Eh, so what?

Attached is a picture of the first SW VHS release in 1982. Note the lack of the "EP 4, ANH" title that y'all are insisting these films were referred as, post-1981.

This link is to a page that details the history of the various releases of SW to VHS, Laserdisc and DVD, including some foreign releases. Note that the "Episode 4, A New Hope" subtitle is absent on every cover until 2000. http://www.davisdvd.com/misc/ep4.htm

So, if they weren't selling the movie as either "Episode 4" or "A New Hope" before 2000, then how in Gods name were the films "come to be known" by those titles before then?

[Jaguar]

JohnT is clearly right.

[JohnT]

I oughtta sig that, you know.

[JohnT]

The results are in and the people have spoken!

Imran doesn't know what people call "The Godfather" either.

14 - "The Godfather"
5 - "Godfather 1"
7 - "What Banana calls it 'Godfather 1'? Imran?"

PWNED by a near 3:1 margin.

[Ned]

I just got back from seeing the movie for a second time. The overall impression I have of the film is that it is a beautiful work of art. The visuals were the best yet of any film. The music was superb.

As to the story, I must admit it was interesting throughout and moving at the end. The dark mood of the film combined with its gorgeous beauty ranks this film as the best in the series, better than Empire Strikes Back, my previous favorite.

When this comes out on DVD, I am going to buy it rather than rent it. That will be a first for me.

Come Oscar time, I would not be surprised if this film takes home a number of awards, including best score. It should be nominated for best film as well, and this one might actually win one for the single greatest series in film history.

George Lucas, you have contributed greatly to the world. Bravo!

[Drake Tungsten]

Drake, I offered US Copyright Office cites to back my claim. Boris offered images of SW products. It's Imran who's offering BAMs.

Neither of which are particulary relevant in determining what normal people call Episode 4.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Neither of which are particulary relevant in determining what normal people call Episode 4.

I don't see why not. JohnT's citation shows that the movie's title was only "Star Wars" until 1997. So there would be no reason for anyone to think anything else prior. And the merchandising and branding examples I've cited show that it was sold to the public simply as "Star Wars" until 2000. On top of that, I've shown that movie sites and guides still refer to the movie just as "Star Wars."

So I fail to see any logic behind a claim that most people would or might assume the title of the original movie was "Episode 4" or "A New Hope" based on a 5 second bit of moving text at the very beginning of the movie that comes after we see a much bigger "STAR WARS" blaze across the screen. Especially when their movie ticket/VHS box only says "Star Wars."

[Verto]

I'm not sure who is arguing for what, but I got the impression it had to do with this bit

"Episode IV: A New Hope" did not appear in the film during its opening run, but was added during the movie's re-release to ensure consistency with The Empire Strikes Back.

[Boris Godunov]

Actually, no Verto. We're well beyond arguing about that.

[Verto]

Oh, please forgive. After about the second page of the mindless argument, I skipped to the end.

Are we discussing how people refer to the movies? If so, everyone I knows classifies them as:

Star Wars
Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi
Phantom Menace or SW:Episode I
AotC or Episode II
No clue about RotS, although SW: Ep III has been mentioned several times.